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Author Topic: Help: Worshipping at an Indepedent Chapel?  (Read 13065 times)

GodFirst

Re: Help: Worshipping at an Indepedent Chapel?
« Reply #60 on: January 09, 2013, 07:28:pm »
That last reply seems to indicate that you are bothered by connotations, not principles.

Bothered by principles. Primary of all, that we can and must separate from communion in order to keep the Faith. And I don't mean in specific cases, but as an operating principle.
What do you mean by "an operating principle"? If there are specific cases in which it can or must be done, then there must be principles upon which we base our case for it.

Scriptorium

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Re: Help: Worshipping at an Indepedent Chapel?
« Reply #61 on: January 09, 2013, 08:06:pm »
What do you mean by "an operating principle"? If there are specific cases in which it can or must be done, then there must be principles upon which we base our case for it.

True, of course, there must be principles to base your case. That's not what I object to. What I mean is that the position is one more of identification, instead of a sad condition you find yourself in. Resistance becomes over time simply your everyday state. This congregation has been at this since 1977, and there seems to be no game plan to get out of it. At least the SSPX is in talks trying to bridge the gap. Our priest has said plainly that the SSPX talks will not affect us. There's no clear goal at the end of this irregular situation. Now they may say the bishop converts, but I know that that means the bishop never celebrates the New Mass, has dropped VII, and gives our priests carte blanche to do what they do. I not only think that is unrealistic, it seems also to be a level of requirement before placing oneself under obedience which cannot be justified by Catholic teaching. Now I understand that the priests think they'll be shut down, but from that perhaps justifying reason, I don't how that allows me to support it, though. There is no danger to my faith the local TLMs that I can discern, and that was the standard of Abp. Lefebvre.
Had your law not been my delight,
 I would have died in my affliction.

Ps 119:92

JMartyr

Re: Help: Worshipping at an Indepedent Chapel?
« Reply #62 on: January 09, 2013, 08:25:pm »
Prayers for you, Scriptorium. All of us are ,as Quis would say, idiots on a keyboard. We are doing our best in a messed up situation. I am sure all of us at times wonder if we are doing the right thing. I know I do.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 06:01:am by JMartyr »
“All the modernists were excommunicated by St. Pius X. Those imbued with the modernist principles are the ones who excommunicated us, while they were the ones who were excommunicated by St. Pius X. Why do they excommunicate us? It is because we want to remain Catholic, because we do not want to follow them in this spirit of destruction of the Church. ‘Since you don’t want to come with us, we excommunicate you.’ ‘Very well, thank you. We prefer to be excommunicated. We do not want to participate in this shocking work in the Church that has been carried out in the last 20 years”- Archbishop Lefebvre; sermon in the Mass of July 10, 1988

Pheo

Re: Help: Worshipping at an Indepedent Chapel?
« Reply #63 on: January 09, 2013, 08:51:pm »
I can only offer prayers for you too, Script.  And my heart aches to have the chance to attend the pre-1955 Holy Week as you've been able to!
Forced to leave for refusing to lie - well played.

GodFirst

Re: Help: Worshipping at an Indepedent Chapel?
« Reply #64 on: January 09, 2013, 11:25:pm »
What do you mean by "an operating principle"? If there are specific cases in which it can or must be done, then there must be principles upon which we base our case for it.

True, of course, there must be principles to base your case. That's not what I object to. What I mean is that the position is one more of identification, instead of a sad condition you find yourself in. Resistance becomes over time simply your everyday state. This congregation has been at this since 1977, and there seems to be no game plan to get out of it. At least the SSPX is in talks trying to bridge the gap. Our priest has said plainly that the SSPX talks will not affect us. There's no clear goal at the end of this irregular situation. Now they may say the bishop converts, but I know that that means the bishop never celebrates the New Mass, has dropped VII, and gives our priests carte blanche to do what they do. I not only think that is unrealistic, it seems also to be a level of requirement before placing oneself under obedience which cannot be justified by Catholic teaching. Now I understand that the priests think they'll be shut down, but from that perhaps justifying reason, I don't how that allows me to support it, though. There is no danger to my faith the local TLMs that I can discern, and that was the standard of Abp. Lefebvre.
I don't see how their position as you've stated it is any different than that of the Society. They want something very similar, do they not? Do you know something about the SSPX that I do not?


GodFirst

Re: Help: Worshipping at an Indepedent Chapel?
« Reply #65 on: January 09, 2013, 11:30:pm »
I can only offer prayers for you too, Script.  And my heart aches to have the chance to attend the pre-1955 Holy Week as you've been able to!
I could only stand that if it was at the times we currently do them. I couldn't stand Easter Vigil before midnight like some trad Parishes do it.

GodFirst

Re: Help: Worshipping at an Indepedent Chapel?
« Reply #66 on: January 09, 2013, 11:31:pm »
Prayers for you, Scriptorium. All of us are ,as Quis would say, idiots on a keyboard. We are doing our best in a messed up sitution. I am sure all of us at times wonder if we are doing the right thing. I know I do.
here here

Old Salt

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Re: Help: Worshipping at an Indepedent Chapel?
« Reply #67 on: January 10, 2013, 08:46:am »
That last reply seems to indicate that you are bothered by connotations, not principles.

Bothered by principles. Primary of all, that we can and must separate from communion in order to keep the Faith. And I don't mean in specific cases, but as an operating principle.

Do what thou wilt.  I'll keep you in me prayers.  I don't have any advice for you, because I view the situation very differently.  I hope that you remain a faithful Catholic, above all.  Sometimes it's hard to tell what that actually means. 
To be a faithful Catholic also means remaining in union with the Ordinary and therfore the Holy Father.
It is not hard to discern what being a faithful Catholic means.

Reception of the sacraments worthily and being in canonical union with the Church and knowing and living by the Catechism.
Don't forget to pray for the dead.

Mithrandylan

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Re: Help: Worshipping at an Indepedent Chapel?
« Reply #68 on: January 10, 2013, 08:56:am »
That last reply seems to indicate that you are bothered by connotations, not principles.

Bothered by principles. Primary of all, that we can and must separate from communion in order to keep the Faith. And I don't mean in specific cases, but as an operating principle.

Do what thou wilt.  I'll keep you in me prayers.  I don't have any advice for you, because I view the situation very differently.  I hope that you remain a faithful Catholic, above all.  Sometimes it's hard to tell what that actually means. 
To be a faithful Catholic also means remaining in union with the Ordinary and therfore the Holy Father.
It is not hard to discern what being a faithful Catholic means.

Reception of the sacraments worthily and being in canonical union with the Church and knowing and living by the Catechism.

Come off it old salt.  You say this over and over and over again.  If you really believed this with conviction you wouldn't even be here, you'd be out interviewing middle aged women for EMHC positions and helping your parish organize a mini Assisi.  Hopefully you KNOW that being a faithful Catholic doesn't just mean union with the ordinary, not these days anyhow

nmoerbeek

Re: Help: Worshipping at an Indepedent Chapel?
« Reply #69 on: January 10, 2013, 09:09:am »

Fr Paul B. Sretenovic came to us in 2005. He was ordained by Archbishop John J. Myers of Newark in 2002. He said the New Mass there until 2005. In that year he had a crisis of conscience, and decided he could no longer say the New Mass. The Archbishop offered an indult situation, but Father believed it had too many strings attached. He left his Archdiocese to come out to OLHC. For years he heard nothing from the Archbishop, but apparently he is suspended by him. Fr Sretenovic is a very holy priest. Somewhat a mystic. And he has developed by leaps and bounds in the last seven years.


Is this the same Priest that wrote this very interesting take on showing affection to family members.
http://www.traditioninaction.org/religious/k016rpEmbraces.html

Some of the most interesting lines
"Kisses on the mouth should be reserved exclusively to the spouses when they are not in company of others. Spouses should not kiss this way except in private. In front of their children or friends – for example, when a man arrives at home or leaves the house – he should embrace his spouse and kiss her on the forehead or cheek."

"Children may kiss their parents on their cheeks and vice-versa. In days past, there was the better custom of children kissing their mother’s or father’s hand, asking her/his blessing. To kiss the hand of parents and grandparents used to be the rule. This rule would admit some exceptions: at the child’s birthday or other special occasions: the mother would kiss her son on his cheek; the father would kiss his daughter on her cheek when she would graduate, leave for a trip and similar situations. "

Is this the type of guidance that you get their?
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