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Author Topic: Protestantism  (Read 5428 times)

Traditionalist

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Protestantism
« on: April 28, 2007, 08:45:pm »
I am less than charitable when it comes to protestantism--I despise its very existance.  Is it justifiable to feel this way, or do I need to change my attitude?  I try to reason that this is appropriate in light of the fact that protestantism is error, and while we must love protestants as people created by God, we cannot accept their error.  Did not Saint Paul write that we are to have no fellowship with heretics?  It would follow that, since there is only one true religion--the Catholic religion--all who are not Catholic are heretics or pagans.

Any thoughts?


DominusTecum

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Protestantism
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2007, 09:43:pm »

That is eminently correct reasoning. Protestantism is a disgusting heresy, and it is directly responsible, with its principles of private judgment, for the unravelling of society and rational thought which we see today in the liberalist denial of absolute Truth. Protestants themselves in our time are often relatively sincere, and believe to varying degrees in their alleged "religion." We must treat them with charity, but we are not good Catholics if we do not despise their religion.


Cristero

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Protestantism
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2007, 10:08:pm »

I have met many sincere protestants, but as they are in varying degrees of error, their beliefs when extended outward lead to compounded error.  At least as Catholics, we know what is right and wrong, even if we fail to live up to what is right.  But many protestants have no idea that what they are doing is wrong, or that what they believe is against the will of the almighty.  They may think that birth control is OK, and that divorce is also OK, despite Jesus' words to the contrary.


CounterRevolutionary

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Protestantism
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2007, 10:21:pm »

Be nothing but charitable towards the heretic, love them and desire their salvation, but as for the heresy.... hate it with all your might.

"For, if this expression (of universal bishop) is suffered to be allowably used, the honour of all patriarchs is denied: and while he that is called Universal perishes per chance in his error, no bishop will be found to have remained in a state of truth."
 -Pope St. Gregory the Great

"For no one of us has set himself up to be bishop of bishops, or attempted with tyrannical dread to force his colleagues to obedience to him, since every bishop has, for the license of liberty and power, his own will, and as he cannot be judged by another, so neither can he judge another."
-St. Cyprian of Carthage
 
"Well let us suppose that those bishops who decided the case at Rome were not good judges, there still remained a plenary Council of the universal Church, in which these judges themselves might be put on their defense; so that, if they were convicted of a mistake their decisions might be reversed." 
-St. Augustine

batteddy2

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Protestantism
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2007, 11:33:pm »
Protestantism is beyond heresy.

Old heresies used to be usually just one false denial. We could put a technical name on something like "monothelitism" or "monophysitism". These were denials of some technical point, and a few times were probably language/semantics issues more than heresy. Though with something like Arianism the whole truth of Jesus Christ was at stake. Still, they were usually only one point in error at a time.

But Protestantism is a whole system of heresies, in all sorts of varied combinations. It is not a single flaw like the heresies of old, but a whole collection of heresies. Like Gnosticism early on, and Modernism later...Protestantism was not some single dogma denied, but a whole bunch in a bunch of bizarre combinations.


paullong

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Protestantism
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2007, 03:24:pm »

Quote from: batteddy2
Protestantism is beyond heresy.

Old heresies used to be usually just one false denial. We could put a technical name on something like "monothelitism" or "monophysitism". These were denials of some technical point, and a few times were probably language/semantics issues more than heresy. Though with something like Arianism the whole truth of Jesus Christ was at stake. Still, they were usually only one point in error at a time.

But Protestantism is a whole system of heresies, in all sorts of varied combinations. It is not a single flaw like the heresies of old, but a whole collection of heresies. Like Gnosticism early on, and Modernism later...Protestantism was not some single dogma denied, but a whole bunch in a bunch of bizarre combinations.

Well, the collective heresy of Protestantism would be defined as a denial of authority. When they have no authority, then everything else breaks down.


Traditionalist

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Protestantism
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2007, 03:32:pm »
Thanks for the replies everyone.  I was feeling rather guilty about my animosity for Protestantism, but I think it is good and right, so long as it does not extend to the people themselves, who may be sincere, though in error.  For the people, we must pray, and be charitable--but we must not give them the impression that we accept their error: that, I think is false charity.

batteddy2

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Protestantism
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2007, 06:04:pm »
Quote
Well, the collective heresy of Protestantism would be defined as a denial of authority.

I see what your saying, but I think it's a stranger bird than even that. The Orthodox deny the Pope, for example, but seem to be doing relatively okay orthodoxy-wise. And the Anglicans and certain types of Lutherans, at least, have (or had until this century) relatively binding "bishops". Goes to show you what the loss of true apostolic sucession does. The valid Orthodox bishops keep things okay, the invalid Anglican and Lutheran do not.

aquinas138

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Protestantism
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2007, 08:16:pm »
I agree.  Having converted to the Church from Protestantism, I revile the errors of it.  The errors of Protestantism are rooted in its rejection of authority, but the errors have spread into every aspect of the religion.  It actually took several years to develop a true sensus catholicus after living with Protestantism my whole life; now when I see televangelists on television, they are much more foreign to me than I would have thought possible.  Thanks be to God!  
I revered what lay hidden
    and meditated on what was revealed.
The aim of my search was to gain profit,
    the aim of my silence was to find succor.

- St. Ephrem the Syrian

ThinkerLXVI

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Protestantism
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2007, 08:48:pm »
Quote from: batteddy2
The valid Orthodox bishops keep things okay, the invalid Anglican and Lutheran do not.

I came from the Lutheran church to Catholicism and then Traditional Catholicism.  I was born just after the "Green Hymnal" (Lutheran Book of Worship) came out.  Lutherans take forever to change things, and started writing the order of worship in that hymnal shortly after Vatican II in an effort to bring themselves into closer union with Rome, possibly even looking to reunion. 

It was based in large part on Luther's original "German Order of Mass" which was a shortened, clarified version of the hodge-podge that some pre-council-of-Trent masses were.  Remember that prior to the council of Trent, you could find as many abuses in some Medieval masses as you could in a Novus Ordo mass today, they were just different abuses.  These abuses of the mass were things that led directly to the illicit selling of indulgences and extortion of money by the church which Luther's 95 theses were concerned with.

To make a long story short, the two churches passed each other.  The Lutheran church became liturgically rigid and quite orthodox among its more educated members, while the Novus Ordo church moved into the more liberal, feel-good, man-centered mass we all know and love .  This condition persisted until the early- to mid-nineties, when the Lutheran church released the "with one voice" liturgy and once again began allowing the exclusion of the more "catholic" elements of the Lutheran service (Litanies instead of the Kyrie, Angus Dei, and Sanctus, adding some sort of "sign of peace," and other things that were similar to the NO mass, but still different.)  This is what drove me out of the Lutheran church and into atheism.

Lutherans (for the most part) want to rejoin the Catholic church (outside the Missouri Synod, they leave the word "catholic" in the Apostles' and Nicene Creeds), but want to know that they're going to be protected from the abuses that Luther was so worried about.  A well-educated Lutheran will admit to believing in:

  • A purgative process (maybe the actual place of purgatory, maybe simply a process God puts imperfect souls through before joining perfect union with Him in heaven, but fully under God's control, not in any way subject to the will of the Church Militant, except through prayer to Him.)
  • The primacy of the Pope among Bishops (more than most of the schismatic Orthodox admit to.)
  • The miracle of the transubstantiation (if you describe it, but if you call it "the miracle of transubstantiation, the Lutheran might stick, but if you say "do you believe that the bread and wine truly are the body and blood of Christ during the Eucharist" a well-educated Lutheran will answer yes.)
  • That the BVM is worthy of veneration (the rosary is coming back into vogue among more conservative Lutherans.  This is largely a result of John Paul the Beloved's push to bring people back to the rosary.)
  • That the Saints are worthy of veneration (again to the Creeds "the Communion of the Saints")

I'm sure there are others, but I have to run to a meeting.  I'll simply conclude by saying that a Traditional Catholic and a Lutheran who fell in love with the "Green Hymnal" liturgy will have a lot more in common, religiously, than a Traditional Catholic and a Catholic who is devoted to the Novus Ordo mass.