Choose style:

Author Topic: When did Mary and Joseph get married?  (Read 14046 times)

didishroom

Where in the course of Gospel events were they no longer espoused but married? And where would these ceremonies have taken place? Synagogue? Their home? Do you know how similar the cermeonies would have been compared with today's Judaism?
"We're from Jersey. Not New Jersey, just Jersey.  We curse a lot. We say "yo" and we say it often. We sure as hell don't pump our own gas. We know what real pizza tastes like and we know that a bagel is much more than a roll wit a hole in the middle. We judge people by what exit they are off the parkway or by what mall they live closest to. We drive SUVs and we tailgate any chance we get.  All good nights must end in a diner, preferably with cheese fries. It's a sub, not a hoagie or a hero. and I wash it down with soda, not pop.  I have a dawg, and I drink cawfee.  ..and New York City, is "the city." We know 65 mph means 80 mph."-Anon

Foolish then, is he who departs from the Vicar of Christ Crucified, who has the keys of the Blood, or who goes against him . . . Even though the pope were satan incarnate himself, I may not lift up my head against him, but I must always humble myself, and beg for the Blood as a mercy, for in no other wise can I obtain a part of it -St. Catherine of Sienna.


If desire has equal power with actual Baptism, you would then be satisfied to desire Glory, as though that longing itself were Glory!-St. Gregory Nazianzen.

Rosarium

  • Guest
Re: When did Mary and Joseph get married?
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2009, 12:06:pm »
Where in the course of Gospel events were they no longer espoused but married? And where would these ceremonies have taken place? Synagogue? Their home? Do you know how similar the cermeonies would have been compared with today's Judaism?

"Espoused" means "married".

Mary was raised in the Temple and was commanded by God to marry which caused her some confusion as she took a vow of perpetual virginity, but she did as God commanded. They were married before the Annunciation. I know many say that it was before they were married, but Joseph could have only "put her away" if they were married. It didn't apply to people about to get married and it states they were married in the Bible (protestants ignore this, as it makes her "I know not a man" statement make sense, and they can't have sense)

The ceremony took place in the Temple I think. The ceremony wouldn't be that similiar to modern ceremonies due to the circumstances. There is no Temple now.

SCG

Re: When did Mary and Joseph get married?
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2009, 04:30:pm »
I was always under the impression that espousal was more than being engaged but not quite married - that it was the state before a couple formally lived together as man and wife. It's my understanding that Mary and Joseph were not living together at the time of the Annunciation.

In the book of Matthew we read that "When Mary had been betrothed to Joseph - but before they came together - she was found to be with child of the Holy Spirit........and her husband Joseph.... resolved to send her away quietly." So clearly Joseph already had a husband's rights and duties. But recall the following words of the angel: "Do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife... for that which is conceived of her is of the Holy Spirit." Then it tells us that when Joseph woke from his sleep, he "took her as his wife...." (Matthew 1: 18-23)

My conclusion is that Mary and Joseph got officially "married" (moved in together) sometime after Mary's return from the house of Elizabeth and Zechariah (after the birth of John the Baptist) and before the birth of Jesus.

- Lisa
« Last Edit: May 16, 2009, 05:01:pm by StrictCatholicGirl »
Not all those who wander are lost. -- J.R.R. Tolkien

geogeer

Re: When did Mary and Joseph get married?
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2009, 04:40:pm »
I may be wrong here (and quite often am), but I believe that under the customs of the time there was something between betrothal and marriage.  During this period you were husband and wife, yet you did not live together.

It was probably a time to actually get to know one another as betrothed couples didn't necessarily see each other.  The closest analogy would be dating ancient style!  ;D

SCG

Re: When did Mary and Joseph get married?
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2009, 04:49:pm »
I may be wrong here (and quite often am), but I believe that under the customs of the time there was something between betrothal and marriage.  During this period you were husband and wife, yet you did not live together.

Yes, that was my understanding too. It doesn't mention Joseph traveling with Mary to the house of Elizabeth (the Visitation). Yet I can't imagine a "full-fledged husband" (for lack of a better term) allowing his pregnant wife to travel alone across the hill country - much less stay three months. On the other hand, I can't imagine any pregnant woman traveling alone in those days. There could have been other family members with her. We just don't know.

- Lisa
Not all those who wander are lost. -- J.R.R. Tolkien


QuisUtDeus

  • Guest
Re: When did Mary and Joseph get married?
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2009, 04:53:pm »
I know many say that it was before they were married, but Joseph could have only "put her away" if they were married. It didn't apply to people about to get married and it states they were married in the Bible (protestants ignore this, as it makes her "I know not a man" statement make sense, and they can't have sense)

Actually, as some have stated, there was a formal engagement-type thing and a betrothal would have required a divorce.

Here, I'll use your favorite source :P

Wikipedia
Quote
Betrothal (also called espousal) is a formal state of engagement to be married.

Historically betrothal was a formal contract, blessed or officiated by a religious authority. Betrothal was binding as marriage and a divorce was necessary to terminate a betrothal. Betrothed couples were regarded legally as husband and wife - even before their wedding and physical union.

Rosarium

  • Guest
Re: When did Mary and Joseph get married?
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2009, 05:03:pm »
Actually, as some have stated, there was a formal engagement-type thing and a betrothal would have required a divorce.
But it says "espoused", not "betrothed".
Quote from: Luke 1:27
To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

According to the Merriam Webster dictionary, it means "married".
Quote
Here, I'll use your favorite source :P

According to the Bible, and in private reveletions even, they were married before the Annunciation.

Wikipedia isn't my favourite source, it is my favourite way to find sources ;)




Rosarium

  • Guest
Re: When did Mary and Joseph get married?
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2009, 05:06:pm »
I was always under the impression that espousal was more than being engaged but not quite married - that it was the state before a couple formally lived together as man and wife. It's my understanding that Mary and Joseph were not living together at the time of the Annunciation.
According to various Church approved private reveletions, they were. According to the Bible, they were married.


Quote
My conclusion is that Mary and Joseph got officially "married" (moved in together) sometime after Mary's return from the house of Elizabeth and Zechariah (after the birth of John the Baptist) and before the birth of Jesus.

My conclusion is that the Mystical City of God, a Church approved book, does not violate the teachings of the Church and the Bible. From that source, Mary and Joseph were married, but slept in different places (I don't remember if they had their own distinct rooms, I think they did). Espoused means married in the English dictionaries I've consulted.

Rosarium

  • Guest
Re: When did Mary and Joseph get married?
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2009, 05:07:pm »
Yes, that was my understanding too. It doesn't mention Joseph traveling with Mary to the house of Elizabeth (the Visitation). Yet I can't imagine a "full-fledged husband" (for lack of a better term) allowing his pregnant wife to travel alone across the hill country - much less stay three months. On the other hand, I can't imagine any pregnant woman traveling alone in those days. There could have been other family members with her. We just don't know.

I can't imagine any woman traveling alone, especially one so young.


SCG

Re: When did Mary and Joseph get married?
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2009, 05:07:pm »
Espoused means married in the English dictionaries I've consulted.

But what did it mean for a 1st century Jewish couple?

- Lisa
Not all those who wander are lost. -- J.R.R. Tolkien