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Author Topic: Wow. Traditional Reqiuem Mass to the tune of Mozart's Requiem  (Read 1658 times)

Joshua

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I recently came across this uploaded Mass of a traditional Requiem Mass celebrated in Poland by the FSSP to the tune of Mozart's famous Requiem composition.

While I am not the biggest fan of "orchestral Masses", I still found this to be very beautiful in that it is the first time I have seen Mozart's Requiem, a masterful composition enjoyed and appreciated by countless, performed in the setting it was truly intended for (so please, no debating this ... )



The remainder should come up when the video is finished or they can be viewed off of the profile of the poster.

In Corde Regis Christi,

Joshua


« Last Edit: June 08, 2010, 02:04:am by Joshua »


Would you please spare an AVE for my deceased Aunt Elizabeth who left us on July 16th 2010? May God reward you.

"Know this: it is by very little breaches of regularity that the devil succeeds in introducing the greatest abuses. May you never end up saying: 'This is nothing, this is an exaggeration' ... I would give up my life a thousand times, not only for each of the truths of Sacred Scripture, but even more for the least of the rubrics and ceremonies of the Catholic Church."
+ St. Therese of Avila +

"The person who does not become irate when he has cause to be sins. For an unreasonable patience is the hotbed of many vices.
+ St. John Chrysostom

markadm

Ah, Fr Deneke's Mass!  ;D

If you go on gloria.tv you should be able to find the entire thing as one file to download, by the way,

MagisterMusicae

This is an interesting interpretation of the Mozart Requiem. I'll have to listen some more.

Because I must be a party-pooper: On a liturgical note, this is absolutely forbidden, even by the rubrics of the Novus Ordo Missæ.

Instrumental music is absolutely prohibited at any Mass or Office of the Dead. The only exception is that the organ may be played when necessary to support the singers. This means that the chants or polyphony may be accompanied to help the singers, but the organ may not play any solo selection, nor may the organ play any kind of introduction, prelude, processional, or recessional.

This is in the GIRM for the Novus Ordo Missæ and the 1967 S.R.C. document on music in the Liturgy. In the traditional Liturgy this point is found in many rubrical books, but is based on the instructions of the Pontificale Romanum.

It would be interesting if someone could adapt Mozart's Requiem as an a capella choral symphonic work. That would make it rubrically acceptable (save the Dies Iræ, since it is set in different movements, which is prohibited by Pius X's Motu Proprio).

markadm

 ???  Oh bother.  Does this mean all of the great Requiems of the past are essentially verboten. I don't think you're the party-pooper, rather our Sainted Pope.

Off-topic: Joshua, are you the same Joshua from yonks back. Hello if so!
« Last Edit: June 08, 2010, 12:28:pm by markadm »

MagisterMusicae

???  Oh bother.  Does this mean all of the great Requiems of the past are essentially verboten. I don't think you're the party-pooper, rather our Sainted Pope.

Off-topic: Joshua, are you the same Joshua from yonks back. Hello if so!

Indeed, it is rather unfortunate, but understandable if one looks at the spirit the Church is trying to encourage.

One note, it was not St. Pius X who axed such music, the traditional rubric from the Pontificale predates St. Pius X by many years. The concepts is the same as with Lent, the Organ is a symbol of joy, and a Requiem, like Lent and other Violet Masses are penitential, so there are properly no flowers, no lace and no organ.

That said, there are magnificent polyphonic Requiems which not only are permissible, but are wonderfully fitting for the occasion.

Here is the Requiem by Morales (Introit: Requiem Æternam):
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And the Kyrie of the same Mass:
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There are even modern Requiems which can be performed a capella.

Of course this is not a judgement on the musical quality of the work at all. Mozart's Requiem is an amazing, beautiful and awe inspiring work. It's just not a good from a liturgical standpoint. Actually, to be honest, my favorite parts of the Requiem are the parts that Mozart never finished, because they have a much more hauntingly beautiful air than Mozart's contribution to the opening of the work. The latter parts are far more contemplative than the earlier.


markadm

I see what you mean, though I still prefer Mozart... When did the shift occur, because surely at the time of its composition, Mozart's Requiem was licit?

MagisterMusicae

I see what you mean, though I still prefer Mozart... When did the shift occur, because surely at the time of its composition, Mozart's Requiem was licit?

My impression was that culturally the shift happened in the 12th and 13th centuries with the beginnings of polyphony. Music was never highly regulated, and most of the music used at Mass was a matter of local custom.This can be shown by the wide variation of certain well known chants. Thus when extra voices were added, this also was a matter of local custom, some did this, some did not, and those who did had various ways of singing.

There were undoubtedly some objections that the new forms with extra voices were not proper, but music was generally a laissez-faire commodity for a long while.

At the Council of Trent there were some loud objections from those who wanted to forbid any polyphony and allow only Gregorian Chant. These purists probably had a very good intention in trying to reign in some abuses in the musical realm, but when it was decided to allow polyphony without detailing some restrictions, this was an invitation for composers to write whatever they desired (so long as it pleased their patrons).

Thus it wasn't really a matter of Mozart's Requiem being "licit" as much as until the 19th century, no one loudly objected.

And St. Pius X wasn't the first to try to regulate sacred music and art, but he was had the most lasting effect and was the most direct. By the early 20th century it was clear that most "Sacred Music" was just secular music with religious words and Gregorian Chant, the only music that the Church herself calls her own was rarely, if ever sung outside a monastery.

The standard that St. Pius X was trying to set is that Sacred Music should be different and set apart from secular music. Don't get me wrong, I quite fancy the Mozart Requiem, but at the same point in time, there is very little stylistic difference between the Requiem and Magic Flute, save for some thematic elements. The Requiem (as a Mass) is perhaps the most liturgically appropriate of all of Mozart's Masses as well. An orchestral Mass is perfectly permissible for a feast, but most of Mozart's festal Masses are so long, the words repeated and twisted in so many ways and the movements proliferating in such a manner that they turn the Mass into a concert at which some liturgical ceremony is happening in another part of the building.

Of course the Archbishop of Salzburg did use many of these Masses, but I am certain they made for Masses where the Mass itself became secondary to the music.

cgraye

The Requiem (as a Mass) is perhaps the most liturgically appropriate of all of Mozart's Masses as well.

I don't know about that.  Some of the earlier, shorter (practically unknown) ones seem more appropriate to me.
Chris

MagisterMusicae

The Requiem (as a Mass) is perhaps the most liturgically appropriate of all of Mozart's Masses as well.

I don't know about that.  Some of the earlier, shorter (practically unknown) ones seem more appropriate to me.

Agreed. But as you say these are mostly unknown. More's the pity. The Missa Brevis in G Major might be one of tehse. It's Gloria is not divided into multiple movements with different styles.

With the exception of the Dies Iræ of the Requiem, we see the same thing. Where I would argue that the Requiem is more appropriate is probably because the clarity of the lines, and the lack of repetition. It also could be that the Requiem's Agnus Dei is about as close as I've heard to the spirit of the Gregorian Chant when a full orchestra is playing.

Joshua

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Quote from: markadm
Off-topic: Joshua, are you the same Joshua from yonks back. Hello if so!

Indeed I am, sir! How have things transpired with you, Mark? I'd love to hear from you! (PM me if you'd like).

... and thank you, Magister, for your always sobering and educational responses.  ;D





Would you please spare an AVE for my deceased Aunt Elizabeth who left us on July 16th 2010? May God reward you.

"Know this: it is by very little breaches of regularity that the devil succeeds in introducing the greatest abuses. May you never end up saying: 'This is nothing, this is an exaggeration' ... I would give up my life a thousand times, not only for each of the truths of Sacred Scripture, but even more for the least of the rubrics and ceremonies of the Catholic Church."
+ St. Therese of Avila +

"The person who does not become irate when he has cause to be sins. For an unreasonable patience is the hotbed of many vices.
+ St. John Chrysostom