Ok.. so the clothes that Adam and Even made for themselves may have been an immodest apron, afterall what does fallen man know about appropriate standards of modesty without an authority to show them? Perhaps the animal skins the Lord God clothed them with provided better coverage.
I don't have time to look up authoritative statements that might make your claims plausible. I will rely on the traditional standards of Christian modesty which are plain to see.
Let's suppose the clothes they made themselves were immodest, as unlikely as that is, and lets suppose the garments God sewed up for them were a little more covering and comfortable, that still does not equal a timeless standard since objective truths, as stated above, are truths both before and after the fall. The fact remains they were in the buff before the fall and were as modest as Mary due to their complete innocence.
So we are left with some form of nudity..LOL to flowing cloth as modesty for people.
Post fall we are told it was a loin cloth, they would have made more to cover more if they had felt the need, having not felt the need they did not. God seeing they had no sewing machine and that he would not give them Kenneth Cole, decided to give them some leather duds....I've seen chicks in leather.....I'm glad God chose leather.
Well that says it all.
But seriously, judging from the points you've made, Adam and Eve can't play into the whole modesty debate because you can't compare the standard of modesty before and after the fall, and you don't really know what their clothes looked like, and that doesn't matter because modesty is moot between married people, but we don't know exactly what happened after they had kids.
I know you spend a lot of time debating this and I just roll my eyes when I see it, but I thought I would ask you here for some authoritative sources to back yourself up because you seem to think that those defending traditionally held standards of modesty do so without solid reason.
Anyway, if you seriously don't see anything wrong with the clothes the "chick" was wearing in the link from the OP, show your priest and ask him what he thinks. Because if that isn't indecent, then there's no such thing as decent. I am shocked everytime I see a girl wearing shorts like that.
And I gave you THE source. As a trad you should be aware that priests currently are not a group of people that you can typically run to for advice about anything.
Additionally when you ask for sources from me and I give you THE source you don't get it, but let the sewing circle pull some quotes...if they really are, from some place you can't go to verify, and can't get in context....and you're satified...why? Because you have already made your mind up that oyu know what modesty is, what constitutes it, and what it LOOKS like. YOu have no argument against me except the sewing circle of modesty threads and so words from Fatima.....words which are not clear at all about what they speak....never is length of anything discussed...and as I complained, the word fashiln in English can mean all sorts of things besides cloths....,and if it is about clothes....it certainly does not have to be about what it is that you have made your mind up that it is about....
GEN 3:7 is pretty clear....
And yes...once again, if a truth is an objective truth, it is always has been and always will be a truth....such that nudity is not against modesty when we are in a certain state....so the range of clothes that denotes modest wear...is wide.
Finally my arguments on modesty are not for folks that have made up their minds. As with the madesty brigade that usually roams the halls, there will never be convincing be reason and demonstration....it will take an epiphany.
No, my arguments about modesty are for the folks that look at trads and think..."oh sh**, hwy would I want to go were those weirdos go?" I primarily serve as a reminder to all the fence sitters that you do not have to be a freak show to go to a TLM.
I find it fascinating that you were willing to take MY "3 Mass challenge" as you put it, but are unwilling to give this one a think. At any rate, glad you did the TLM thing per your first post on the forum. As for the advice you ask about getting everyone to go, I have posted that many times as well...it also is a 3 times thing but involves finess and no arguing about what is better or preferences or asnything.
You see the beauty of the TLM speaks for itself, and your family will see it if you let them.....
It comes down to this, don't engage about the TLM, just at some point make a deal with them to go 3 times...just as you did, the deal can be anything...such as a really good breakfast or whatever....
There are plenty of folks here who have done it and their families have been won over.......not by reason, not by goading, not by example, but by the simple beauty of the thing itself.,
Sorry I missed your post back in April or I would have posted it then.