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Author Topic: OK for Trads to Debate Vatican II, not the Holocaust  (Read 15371 times)

Vox Clamantis

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Re: OK for Trads to Debate Vatican II, not the Holocaust
« Reply #60 on: December 06, 2011, 03:49:pm »

I think maybe you misunderstood me ... I was saying Someone1776 is a professed believing Catholic and suggesting wih sarcasm that Alaric is a idiot for suggesting such a person is really a Jew just because he doesnt oppose the accepted historical view of the holocaust. 

Yes. Can't we all agree that taking sides in debates that are matters of sheer History neither prove nor disprove one's "Catholic-ness" and then discuss the topic of the thread itself?  If one takes the negative view, one can take it as "the Vatican" is saying otherwise with regard to my first statement; the "give the benefit of the doubt" view could be that that sort of controversy is being deemed "off-topic" as to the SSPX talks in se, and imprudent to get into for obvious reasons.
 
At any rate, those who question the "orthodox Holocaust literature" need to use prudence and to check themselves for any real anti-Semitism; those who accept the standard view need to stop accusing people of "Holocaust denial" for having questions or for not accepting every jot and tittle of the textbook narratives. (really, what does "Holocaust denial" mean exactly? If one believes that 5,000,000 Jews died instead of 6 million, is that "denial"? What about 3 million? What about 1 million? Where's the line? I don't think anyone believes that Jews were not persecuted and killed in WWII... And why is this matter of History surrounded with so much vehemence on all sides when people can calmly talk about who wrote the plays attributed to Shakespeare, or who was on the right side in the War Between the States, etc.? It's a little surreal, if you ask me...)

alaric

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Re: OK for Trads to Debate Vatican II, not the Holocaust
« Reply #61 on: December 06, 2011, 08:11:pm »
If traditional Catholicism is really about Holocaust denial than I am out.
    See ya.....

Oh and I love the use of the Judaic commie verbage of "Holacaust-denial" as to frame the argument.

Classic Jewspeak.

Someone, you are the typical example of a gutless, balless modern day "catholic" coward, especially when it comes to your Talmudic masters.

I think it's high time you dipped into your bank account, went down to see your local rabbi and formerly converted to the local synagogue.

I'm sure your time can be much better spent as an open Talmudic Jew than a crypto "traditional" catholic bashing other trad caths and bishops on their own websites.

Of course I could be wrong and you could've been an ADL plant all along.

In that case, say hello to ol honest Abe for me. :pieinface:

Wow this makes so much sense.  I am really going to have to change my opinion of you, Alaric ... this was just such a sensible and thoughtful post.

A person who believes everything the Church teaches, is baptized, receives the sacraments, but also happens to believe something close to the accepted account of the fate of Jews during WW2 is obviously not really Catholic since he denies the dogma of ... well I don't know which one.  And he should become a Talmudic Jew, that's what the popes have suggested to such people before, right?

???
What on earth are you saying here NYc? Just because you believe the party line when it comes to the "shoah" doesn't make you more "catholic" than anyone else.

And please don't "suggest" to me what prior popes have propagated eh?

Sorry if I haven't been converted into your own version of the holocaust "religion", this trad catholic can think for himself, thank you very much.
To defend oneself, one must also be ready to die. There is little such readiness in a society raised in the cult of material well-being. Nothing is left, then, but concessions, attempts to gain time, and betrayal.
--- Alexander Solzhenitsyn


"Wrong is wrong even if everybody is doing it, and right is right even if nobody is doing it."
-St. Augustine Doctor of the Church

In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
George Orwell

There is no limit to investigating the truth; until you discover it.
- Cicero

Someone1776

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Re: OK for Trads to Debate Vatican II, not the Holocaust
« Reply #62 on: December 06, 2011, 08:22:pm »
So sad that there are so many ADL plants here.

You would think we...er they...would have better use of their time.

<.<

>.>
"Christianity lies in achieving greatness in the face of the world's hatred." - Saint Ignatius of Antioch

alaric

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Re: OK for Trads to Debate Vatican II, not the Holocaust
« Reply #63 on: December 06, 2011, 08:28:pm »
So sad that there are so many ADL plants here.

You would think we...er they...would have better use of their time.

<.<

>.>
Maybe yes, maybe no.

Just keep the "bloody chums" comin my way there eh hymie?
To defend oneself, one must also be ready to die. There is little such readiness in a society raised in the cult of material well-being. Nothing is left, then, but concessions, attempts to gain time, and betrayal.
--- Alexander Solzhenitsyn


"Wrong is wrong even if everybody is doing it, and right is right even if nobody is doing it."
-St. Augustine Doctor of the Church

In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
George Orwell

There is no limit to investigating the truth; until you discover it.
- Cicero

Traditional Guy

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Re: OK for Trads to Debate Vatican II, not the Holocaust
« Reply #64 on: December 06, 2011, 08:28:pm »
So sad that there are so many ADL plants here.

You would think we...er they...would have better use of their time.

<.<

>.>
I agree. I think you would find a better use for your time than just doing tit-for-tat. And no one said anything about ADL plants here but you do realize that calling someone an anti-Semite comes from the Left correct? Anyway criticism of Jews does not mean anti-Semitism. I think there are quite a few things that can be debated about World War II and the events that led up to it. I would argue that the Allied war guarentee led to the death of millions of people.
"You know when I was 18 I thought my father was pretty dumb. 3 years later I was amazed at how much he learned." Going My Way :)


Someone1776

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Re: OK for Trads to Debate Vatican II, not the Holocaust
« Reply #65 on: December 06, 2011, 08:30:pm »
So sad that there are so many ADL plants here.

You would think we...er they...would have better use of their time.

<.<

>.>
Maybe yes, maybe no.

Just keep the "bloody chums" comin my way there eh hymie?

I don't think I have given you a single bloody chunk.  Not saying that I won't. If you really annoy me I will. 

I might have given you a +fishy at some point.  Could be wrong. 
"Christianity lies in achieving greatness in the face of the world's hatred." - Saint Ignatius of Antioch

Someone1776

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Re: OK for Trads to Debate Vatican II, not the Holocaust
« Reply #66 on: December 06, 2011, 08:31:pm »
And no one said anything about ADL plants here


Revisionism!!



Of course I could be wrong and you could've been an ADL plant all along.

In that case, say hello to ol honest Abe for me. :pieinface:
"Christianity lies in achieving greatness in the face of the world's hatred." - Saint Ignatius of Antioch

moneil

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Re: OK for Trads to Debate Vatican II, not the Holocaust
« Reply #67 on: December 06, 2011, 10:11:pm »
I am still wondering if deisel engine fuel can kill people... ???

It is called carbon monoxide poisioning http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/carbon-monoxide/DS00648  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide_poisoning

Lots of people use it to kill themselves, and it was, I belive the primary method employed by Dr. Kevorkian in his "work" to "releive" human suffering.

Lot's more people inadvertantly eliminate themselves from the gene pool by this method, some of which are truly meritorious of a Darwin Award http://www.darwinawards.com.  Coming home late at night, noticing that one has no house key (or is too inebriate to find the house key on their person), so they sit in a closed garage with the car motor running so they can run the heater.  A college buddy's younger brother died this way.

newyorkcatholic

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Re: OK for Trads to Debate Vatican II, not the Holocaust
« Reply #68 on: December 06, 2011, 10:31:pm »
If traditional Catholicism is really about Holocaust denial than I am out.
    See ya.....

Oh and I love the use of the Judaic commie verbage of "Holacaust-denial" as to frame the argument.

Classic Jewspeak.

Someone, you are the typical example of a gutless, balless modern day "catholic" coward, especially when it comes to your Talmudic masters.

I think it's high time you dipped into your bank account, went down to see your local rabbi and formerly converted to the local synagogue.

I'm sure your time can be much better spent as an open Talmudic Jew than a crypto "traditional" catholic bashing other trad caths and bishops on their own websites.

Of course I could be wrong and you could've been an ADL plant all along.

In that case, say hello to ol honest Abe for me. :pieinface:

Wow this makes so much sense.  I am really going to have to change my opinion of you, Alaric ... this was just such a sensible and thoughtful post.

A person who believes everything the Church teaches, is baptized, receives the sacraments, but also happens to believe something close to the accepted account of the fate of Jews during WW2 is obviously not really Catholic since he denies the dogma of ... well I don't know which one.  And he should become a Talmudic Jew, that's what the popes have suggested to such people before, right?

???
What on earth are you saying here NYc? Just because you believe the party line when it comes to the "shoah" doesn't make you more "catholic" than anyone else.

And please don't "suggest" to me what prior popes have propagated eh?

Sorry if I haven't been converted into your own version of the holocaust "religion", this trad catholic can think for himself, thank you very much.

What are you talking about?  You are the one who questioned Someone's "catholicness" and I suggesting questioning this based upon someone's view of the holocaust is stupid.
One human thought alone is worth more than the entire world, hence God alone is worthy of it. -- St. John of the Cross

PeterII

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Re: OK for Trads to Debate Vatican II, not the Holocaust
« Reply #69 on: December 06, 2011, 11:03:pm »
Quote from: Vox Clamantis
And why is this matter of History surrounded with so much vehemence on all sides when people can calmly talk about who wrote the plays attributed to Shakespeare, or who was on the right side in the War Between the States, etc.? It's a little surreal, if you ask me...)

Umm, I don't think we can equate the genocide of millions of people within living memory with questions like, 'who really wrote Romeo and Juliet?' centuries ago.

Jew-baiting, Nationalism, and Socialism had devastating consequences which no Catholic should tolerate in light of justice and charity.   
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Of empty men.