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Author Topic: Entertaining dangerous thoughts  (Read 390 times)

Jeanannemarie

Entertaining dangerous thoughts
« on: January 11, 2017, 04:19:pm »
Is the novus ordo dangerous to our souls or heading in that direction?  I am seriously beginning to wonder.  Do any of you wonder about this? :crazy:

aquinas138

Re: Entertaining dangerous thoughts
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2017, 04:56:pm »
Specifically the Mass? Well, I think in and of itself it presents a *potential* danger in that it is not specific about certain dogmatic teachings, most specifically the propitiatory sacrifice of the Mass. It does not outright deny it, so it is not a danger in terms of putting forth heresy, but if your priest is not on the ball about preaching about that, then I am unsure how you would ever absorb that idea. It is scandalous if you are familiar with the TLM and see what has been cut out.

Overall, I think the whole Novus Ordo liturgy and Church are problematic for several reasons. Perhaps the most serious problem, because it touches everything, is the idea that Tradition doesn't, at the end of the day, actually matter. The Pope matters. We can be cheerleaders for JP2 when he defended moral teachings, and now we can be cheerleaders for Francis for undermining moral teachings because he's so merciful. It does not matter what the Church said or did in the year 50, 550, 1550 or 1950, because we have Paul VI/John Paul II/Benedict XVI/Francis and the "god of surprises."

Flowing from that cavalier attitude with Tradition is the distinct impression that "the Church can't really take all of this seriously can it?" If you can change the Mass, all the sacraments, smash altars, throw out religious habits, discourage devotions, etc., none of this can be serious. So I'll believe and do what I want, and there's certainly no reason to invite my non-Catholic friends to the Faith - they're fine where they are!
O Lord and Master of my life, take from me the spirit of sloth, despondency, lust for power, and idle talk. But grant unto me, Thy servant, a spirit of chastity, humility, patience and love. Yea, O Lord and King, grant me to see mine own faults and not to judge my brother. For blessed art Thou unto the ages. Amen.

Vox Clamantis

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Re: Entertaining dangerous thoughts
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2017, 05:25:pm »
Is the novus ordo dangerous to our souls or heading in that direction?  I am seriously beginning to wonder.  Do any of you wonder about this? :crazy:

Yes, it's dangerous to souls -- not because of what it is, but because of what it isn't. It teaches Catholics to be Protestant. Though valid (i.e., though Christ is made Present), poetry and a sense of sacred Mystery are gone from it. Its catechetical qualities have been wiped out almost completely, and we're not led to believe that Christ is present. The N.O. was designed to appease Protestants; it's focused on the people rather than on God.  It's also divisive since Latin has been done away with for the most part.

Avoid it if you can, and if you can't and think that the precepts of the Church mean you should attend if no TLM is available, don't financially support it. Use your money to send young men to trad seminaries, to keep trad parishes going, to support trad apostolates, etc.

See the FE page on the TLM vs. the NO:  http://www.fisheaters.com/TLMintroduction.html  Note, too, the link to the document "Gutting the Gospels" at the bottom of the page!
 
Matthew 22:36-39: "Master, which is the greatest commandment in the law? Jesus said to him: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind. This is the greatest and the first commandment. And the second is like to this: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."

J Michael

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Re: Entertaining dangerous thoughts
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2017, 06:19:pm »
Is the novus ordo dangerous to our souls or heading in that direction?  I am seriously beginning to wonder.  Do any of you wonder about this? :crazy:

Yes, it's dangerous to souls -- not because of what it is, but because of what it isn't. It teaches Catholics to be Protestant. Though valid (i.e., though Christ is made Present), poetry and a sense of sacred Mystery are gone from it. Its catechetical qualities have been wiped out almost completely, and we're not led to believe that Christ is present. The N.O. was designed to appease Protestants; it's focused on the people rather than on God.  It's also divisive since Latin has been done away with for the most part.

Avoid it if you can, and if you can't and think that the precepts of the Church mean you should attend if no TLM is available, don't financially support it. Use your money to send young men to trad seminaries, to keep trad parishes going, to support trad apostolates, etc.


Or to sponsor a child or elderly person.  See this  :) .
"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug."~Mark Knopfler (?)

"No matter who you are somebody thinks you're a heretic. Wear it like a badge of honor........... :LOL:"~Silouan

Jeanannemarie

Re: Entertaining dangerous thoughts
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2017, 07:23:pm »
Is the novus ordo dangerous to our souls or heading in that direction?  I am seriously beginning to wonder.  Do any of you wonder about this? :crazy:

Yes, it's dangerous to souls -- not because of what it is, but because of what it isn't. It teaches Catholics to be Protestant. Though valid (i.e., though Christ is made Present), poetry and a sense of sacred Mystery are gone from it. Its catechetical qualities have been wiped out almost completely, and we're not led to believe that Christ is present. The N.O. was designed to appease Protestants; it's focused on the people rather than on God.  It's also divisive since Latin has been done away with for the most part.  Thank you for taking a stand and saying some things that are not wishy washy that I can think about.  My gut instincts have been in overdrive.

Avoid it if you can, and if you can't and think that the precepts of the Church mean you should attend if no TLM is available, don't financially support it. Use your money to send young men to trad seminaries, to keep trad parishes going, to support trad apostolates, etc.


Or to sponsor a child or elderly person.  See this  :) .


Jeanannemarie

Re: Entertaining dangerous thoughts
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2017, 07:29:pm »
I am not at all sure of what happened with that post above.  Something went wrong, probably me, it's been one of those days.  I tried to modify it, to no avail.  Anyway, what I wanted to say was thanks to Vox, I will read the link.

richgr

Re: Entertaining dangerous thoughts
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2017, 11:28:pm »
Let me put it this way...

I was an organist at a nearby Lutheran church for over a year (until I no longer could in good conscience continue to play for their services), and they used the Novus Ordo Mass (English translation) word for word with a few additions and re-arrangements of their own (according to local custom), but they did not take *anything* out.

Think about that.

But then again, Martin Luther is now a witness to the Gospel, so what do I know?

Jeanannemarie

Re: Entertaining dangerous thoughts
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2017, 02:49:am »
Replying to richgr,  if that is the case, should be a short hop to inter Communion with the Lutherans.  My parish is very protestantized compared to a decade ago.  It seems to get worse year by year.  And the music, don't even get me started.  The organ sits gathering dust in the choir loft and the piano is the star attraction actually up on the side of the sanctuary, blocking the tabernacle which is in the side wall..  I know we've all heard all these abominations before.  When I started the thread I was seriously questioning the idea of  leaving, but I have no Mass of Ages close.  All trips would be an hour plus.  My parish is my parish, my community, and I thought the ship was turning around and I have never had this feeling of wanting to bail, but now I think it will be too slow for my lifetime.  All that aside, fear of being "outside" the Church rules, and being inside these days feels pretty much outside.

In His Love

Re: Entertaining dangerous thoughts
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2017, 04:05:am »
All that aside, fear of being "outside" the Church rules, and being inside these days feels pretty much outside.
Preach. :(
Holy Face of Jesus, I love you.


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