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Author Topic: Another TMI post ... about guilt  (Read 943 times)

Optatus Cleary

Re: Another TMI post ... about guilt
« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2017, 02:23:pm »
Some more questions...

My husband chases me around the house and just doesn't leave me alone. At what point does this become inordinate desire? How am I to know when this is objectification? And if so, am I to feel guilty for that? I know we're newlyweds but he's not a young guy that just got a wife and can't handle himself.
I would argue that, by and large, lust for one's spouse is rarely a problem in marriage. A husband is allowed to desire his wife, and a wife is allowed to desire her husband. Like Josef Silouan said, how would you confess it? If you said "I desired my wife once this week" would the priest think this is a sin? What if you said "I desired her twenty times"? If something isn't a sin, it isn't a sin. I wouldn't think any amount of desire for your spouse could be "lust."  Now, the nature of the desire could be lust (I guess if he thought "I need to find something to have sex with....I guess my wife will do..." that could be lust).  But having been married for seven years, I can't imagine that kind of desire really happening. When you're married, you usually know the spouse too well to objectify him or her.

Quote
Secondly, sadism is an obvious disorder. I'm fully aware of that and know this is an inordinate desire. How was I to know of this inclination prior to marriage since we were chaste? How does one rectify this? This is where I know sin is being committed. And no, this did not emerge from pornography as he has minimal interest in that and never did.
This is more disturbing, and I don't want to ask for too much detail, but "sadism" seems like a broad term. For instance, my wife is terrified of bugs.  If I laugh when she freaks out because she saw a spider, that is I suppose slightly sadistic. After all, I'm finding amusement in her suffering.  But if I put a bug on her, that would be going farther. And if I tied her up in a room full of cockroaches, that would obviously be much worse. I would probably say that the first is "normal," the second is "mean," and the third is "sadistic."  But by a technical definition, all of them involve some degree of sadism.  I suspect a truly saintly man wouldn't do any of them. But most of us have imperfections.

I would advise (not that I know everything) that anything degrading, harmful, or dangerous needs to be avoided. But on the other hand (to put it delicately) a certain degree of playfulness and "naughtiness" are probably normal. It's sort of like why it's hard to have sex while looking at the icons.  Overthinking it ruins it (and leads to feelings of guilt, etc.). To be clear, I think you're probably talking about real sadism, which is obviously a problem and which shouldn't be written off as playfulness, etc.
"I am a Christian, and indeed a Roman Catholic, so that I do not expect ‘history’ to be anything but a ‘long defeat’ — though it contains (and in a legend may contain more clearly and movingly) some samples or glimpses of final victory." -J.R.R. Tolkien

"I know quite well that, to you as to me, the Church which once felt like a refuge, now often feels like a trap. There is nowhere else to go! (I wonder if this desperate feeling, the last state of loyally hanging on, was not, even more often than is actually recorded in the Gospels, felt by Our Lord’s followers in His earthly life-time?) I think there is nothing to do but pray, for the Church, the Vicar of Christ, and for ourselves; and meanwhile to exercise the virtue of loyalty, which indeed only becomes a virtue when one is under pressure to desert it." -J.R.R. Tolkien

"There is none so blind as he who will not agree with me." -someone else

Fontevrault

Re: Another TMI post ... about guilt
« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2017, 04:58:pm »
Zubr,

This is probably oversharing but we've known each other a while . . .   :grin:

My husband is a teacher - so summer is a major relaxation time for him.  Despite the fact that we have been married for 19 years this fall, he is "unhinged" all summer long.  He has so much less stress that he gets randy in the extreme.  Now, I'm not a girl to complain, but I have also questioned whether or not it is crossing a line.  We have spent 24-48 hours straight in bed - when the kids are with their grandparents. 

I consider these summer sessions akin to being a newly wed, so I would imagine it's comparable to what you are going through.  Remember that your husband quit sex cold turkey and has just been released from the constraints of celibacy.  He's making up for lost time and eventually that ardor with lessen a little bit to within normal range.  In the meantime, look at his other behaviors toward you as a signal of whether or not you are a lust object or someone he loves and respects.  It will be obvious if you are treated with respect and kindness in general, then the same would follow for during the marital embrace.  Men who objectify women do so all the time, not just during sex.

As for your guilt, I think it's pretty normal for a woman for whom the cultural stigma of having sex outside of marriage is fairly pronounced.  You've internalized the idea that giving in to passion is bad.  If I were you, I would read the Song of Songs and reflect on how beautiful and passionate it really is.  It might help.

Prayers for you and your hubby - always.

Fontervrault
My ipad keyboard hates me.  Please forgive the typos; they are unintentional.

JosefSilouan

Re: Another TMI post ... about guilt
« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2017, 04:01:am »
I would read the Song of Songs and reflect on how beautiful and passionate it really is.

I don't want to be a nitpicker, but the Song of Songs is not about sexual love. It just uses this image to describe the love affair between God and Israel/Jerusalem (in the OT) and between Christ and His Church (in the NT). It mitght also be read as a relationship between Jesus and one's soul. But you will not find any orthodox Jewish Rabbi or any Christian saint who would approve of a "sexual" interpretation.

Just look at this passage....it only makes sense if the Lover talks not to an actual woman, but to a nation:

           How beautiful you are, my darling,
           How beautiful you are!
           (...)
           Your hair is like a flock of goats
           That have descended from Mount Gilead.

           Your teeth are like a flock of newly shorn ewes
            Which have come up from their washing,
            All of which bear twins,
            And not one among them has lost her young.
           (...)
            Your temples are like a slice of a pomegranate
            Behind your veil.
            Your neck is like the tower of David,
            Built with rows of stones
            On which are hung a thousand shields,
            All the round shields of the mighty men."

If I said to my wife that her "teeth are like a flock of newly shorn ewes", I would spend the night on the sofa :-)
"Cor Jesu Rex Et Centrum Omnium Cordium, miserére nobis "

“To pray is to shed blood.” - Silouan the Athonite

In His Love

Re: Another TMI post ... about guilt
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2017, 04:22:am »
If I said to my wife that her "teeth are like a flock of newly shorn ewes", I would spend the night on the sofa :-)

 :LOL:
"Truly blessed is the man whose mind and heart are as closely attached to the Jesus Prayer and to the ceaseless invocation of His name as air to the body or flame to the wax." - St. Hesychios the Priest (☦434)

Zubr

Re: Another TMI post ... about guilt
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2017, 02:42:pm »
Thank you to everyone that replied from the beginning to the end of this thread. My little issue seems solved but really, everyone's insight helped in the process. From this point, I shall count my blessings in this regard. God gave me my husband whom I love dearly, even with his abnormally high T results.  :LOL: Thank you to all again.
Soaring with eagles at night to rise with the pigs in the morning...


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