FishEaters Traditional Catholic Forums

Full Version: Aspergers and ADHD
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
Melita Wrote:Hi all. I've been following this thread and have found it very interesting.
We are here to entertain :)

Quote:I'd like to ask, since Aspergers is a 'personality type', what exactly causes it?
One is born with it. Like I said, there is nothing in it which aren't found in other normal people. For AS itself to be diagnosed, one has to fulfill the criteria listed above and it is usually because of a significant problem with society. By itself, it is no more disordered than an NT. Stick an NT into a society were AS is the norm, and the NT would have (probably) worse problems because of y'all's need for other NT's.

Quote: Are people born with it or a predisposition to it, is it something they develop due to environment etc?

One is born "with it". Often times the parents either have it, or are very close to it in their personalities. Often once a child is diagnosed it is found that the parents or members of their family also have it. Once my mother was informed on it she found that it was quite common in her family.

It was originally thought to be caused by upbring, but considering this was during Freud's time, that is hardly surprising. The term was "refrigerator mother", which caused mothers to feel guilty about something they (later found out) couldn't control.

So really it's just a different world view, the way dyslexic people have (that might be a strained example, sorry) in a world where reading is a necessary norm.
Melita Wrote:So really it's just a different world view, the way dyslexic people have (that might be a strained example, sorry) in a world where reading is a necessary norm.

Not so much like dyslexia.

If you play video games where characters have attributes, it is much like that.

There is a norm for each attribute but no one has exactly 50 (out of 100) points for all and there are stronger and weaker ones, but more or less the same dispersement. An interesting observation I read was that Asperger's is an exaggerated male personality, in other words, the characteristics the typical male has more than a typical women (males are slightly less empathetic than females, females are a tad more emotional, etc) a person with AS has to an extreme.

A person with AS is essentially very unempathetic (we honestly do not feel it), very logical (not saying that emotions are illogical, but inbuilt social constructs cannot be created logically, they are inbuilt), and has a different perspective on the world. For children, this can give the illusion of not caring at all about other people. For those growing up, it is quite awkward.

A person with AS does feel emotion (differently, I imagine) but expresses it differently. My way of showing I care for someone is to give them something. Sounds shallow for an NT, giving things to show affection, but just think how I see physical affection or words of love (useless). For the record, I tested the saying "Its the idea that counts" by telling people what I thought about getting them as a gift, and contrasted it to my idea that "its not the thought that counts, but the cost". The average NT is much happier when given something they see as expensive. Why then do NT's say what they don't really feel? Because of other people. AS has no such restrictions. (People with AS who don't know much about society will often say exactly what they think, leading to embarrassment for NT's. Time and experience tells us that people do not like the truth and to stick with boring routines, rather than anything meaningful).



This is very interesting. Okay, here's something I'm wondering: I keep on reading these stupid lists of Aspergers "symptoms" on the web, and one thing that is repeatedly mentioned is that people with Aspergers have difficulty with abstract thought, that they think in concrete terms and take things literally. Yet there are also lists of famous people who are thought to have had Aspergers, and these lists include a lot of people who you'd think would be masters of abstract thought, metaphor, etc. -- writers and scientists. Explain?

Now when you say that people with Aspergers tend to lack empathy, do you mean they are unempathetic in the same way that a sociopath is -- that they don't care about other people's feelings, that people are basically objects to them? That doesn't seem to be the case, but that's what I think when I hear about "lack of empathy." And it would seem that a group of people who tend toward self-destructive behaviors when frustrated by societal misunderstanding and rejection clearly cannot be unemotional; perhaps "Aspies" feel as much emotion as anybody but just have a more introverted way of expressing it? You know, difficulty with facial expressions and verbalizing feelings?
Quote:A person with AS is essentially very unempathetic (we honestly do not feel it), very logical (not saying that emotions are illogical, but inbuilt social constructs cannot be created logically, they are inbuilt), and has a different perspective on the world.

Not to poke fun, but this was my immediate thought:

[Image: spock_3.jpg]

You don't get more awesome than Spock in this life.

Satori Wrote:This is very interesting. Okay, here's something I'm wondering: I keep on reading these stupid lists of Aspergers "symptoms" on the web, and one thing that is repeatedly mentioned is that people with Aspergers have difficulty with abstract thought, that they think in concrete terms and take things literally. Yet there are also lists of famous people who are thought to have had Aspergers, and these lists include a lot of people who you'd think would be masters of abstract thought, metaphor, etc. -- writers and scientists. Explain?

Now when you say that people with Aspergers tend to lack empathy, do you mean they are unempathetic in the same way that a sociopath is -- that they don't care about other people's feelings, that people are basically objects to them? That doesn't seem to be the case, but that's what I think when I hear about "lack of empathy." And it would seem that a group of people who tend toward self-destructive behaviors when frustrated by societal misunderstanding and rejection clearly cannot be unemotional; perhaps "Aspies" feel as much emotion as anybody but just have a more introverted way of expressing it? You know, difficulty with facial expressions and verbalizing feelings?

IME, what people with Apserger's have a problem with is not THEIR emotions but understanding and interpreting the emotions/needs of others. It comes off as self-centeredness. It's not that they don't care about others or their feelings, they don't even *think* about them in the first place. It's not a conscious rejection, it's an absence of consideration..if that makes any sense. This is something they can learn. So much of what sets a person with AS apart can be learned if family, friends, school etc....take the time to teach them.
What would really set a person with AS apart from someone with a pathological lack of empathy like a sociopath is thier typically well defined sense of right and wrong. Aspie's tend to live in a very black and white world in many ways, including rule following. One blessing of an AS Catholic child is that they BELIEVE and expect everyone else to and defend their faith. On the flip side, some Aspie's have pretty serious anxiety (my son being one of them) and scrupulousity can be an issue.
AdoramusTeChriste Wrote:
Quote:A person with AS is essentially very unempathetic (we honestly do not feel it), very logical (not saying that emotions are illogical, but inbuilt social constructs cannot be created logically, they are inbuilt), and has a different perspective on the world.

Not to poke fun, but this was my immediate thought:

[Image: spock_3.jpg]

You don't get more awesome than Spock in this life.


Actually you aren't far off the mark. His speech patterns are VERY similar to my son's :D
Quote:My son was diagnosed 'old'. He was 8 1/2. We always knew he was different and we were OK with that.

Wow. He was much younger than I was when it was addressed (I was 15-16)
They are diagnosing AS younger and younger. 4-5 years old is getting typical. I question how accurate that is though.

Quote:That is probably the breaking point of when one is "diagnosed", when other disorders arise. For Satori, the description of AS can make one think "that doesn't sound like much of a problem", but people with AS are as human as any other. NT's are unusually judgemental and are very social (meaning, they need other people and are very observant of others in the group). People with AS do not have any problems except those caused by other sources. Anxiety, depression and inappropriate attitudes to the rest of society often develop with people with AS.

Interestingly, the psychologist that diagnosed him told us it was a good thing that we homeschooled him, he would 'be eaten alive' in a public school setting. We have been extremely fortunate to have amazing friends and family who have always accepted our son and tried to help him the best they can. He has had to deal with very little teasing etc....He is his biggest critic
Quote:He likely will be independent. This time should be used for learning (not sheltering) though. I've seen people with AS so clueless about things they would already know if they weren't deliberately isolated by their parents or whatever.
I saw a documentary about a man with AS. Dh and I were amazed at the amount of coddling that went on. His mother still dressed him for goodness sake. It was very telling when at one point he was telling his sister that he knew how much he let his parents do for him and he could do it himself but he liked being taken care of.
Satori Wrote:This is very interesting. Okay, here's something I'm wondering: I keep on reading these stupid lists of Aspergers "symptoms" on the web, and one thing that is repeatedly mentioned is that people with Aspergers have difficulty with abstract thought, that they think in concrete terms and take things literally.
To a degree, yes. This is only for social things though, not abstract thinking as a whole.

Quote: Yet there are also lists of famous people who are thought to have had Aspergers, and these lists include a lot of people who you'd think would be masters of abstract thought, metaphor, etc. -- writers and scientists. Explain?
I too am very fond at word games. Surely that is abstract? The problems come when it is in a social situation. One problem many have is with time. It is often a cause of great anxiety with people with AS. Being late and others being late is extremely annoying. This being literal is in the context of society.

Quote:

Now when you say that people with Aspergers tend to lack empathy, do you mean they are unempathetic in the same way that a sociopath is -- that they don't care about other people's feelings, that people are basically objects to them?
No, not like that. It means we don't feel it. It doesn't mean we don't care at all. Picture a Terminator programmed to care for others. It will not behave or express itself the same way as humans. Same with people with AS.

For younger people with AS and younger people in general, people are often treated as objects. But on the flipside, people with AS don't expect (or notice) when people care for them in such a way. It can seem shallow as I mentioned; we tend to think in terms of materials rather than emotions. I need my mother because I do not have sufficient income at the moment to pay for rent (although I pay for everything else, I live with my mum). I feel some anxiety at the thought of the death of my mother. I do not feel the same way about anyone else. I do have concern for their temporal well being (and pray for them all, and try to assist my family) and I do love them, I just don't feel it or express it the same way as NT's. The only way an NT perspective makes sense is around other NT's. AS works by itself. Imagine how useless your inbuilt feelings would be in a society which didn't share them. You'd be considered psychotic :)

Quote:That doesn't seem to be the case, but that's what I think when I hear about "lack of empathy." And it would seem that a group of people who tend toward self-destructive behaviors when frustrated by societal misunderstanding and rejection clearly cannot be unemotional; perhaps "Aspies" feel as much emotion as anybody but just have a more introverted way of expressing it? You know, difficulty with facial expressions and verbalizing feelings?

You could say that. It would be an extreme case of that.
mom Wrote:Interestingly, the psychologist that diagnosed him told us it was a good thing that we homeschooled him, he would 'be eaten alive' in a public school setting. We have been extremely fortunate to have amazing friends and family who have always accepted our son and tried to help him the best they can. He has had to deal with very little teasing etc....He is his biggest critic
Yes, they do eat you alive. They tease you and even physically harrass you. Teachers don't understand you. You have to gain respect by actively earning it. My intelligence gained me respect in the class room in school. As I grew, it was my physical appearance that gained it everywhere else. During the time I was a teenager (15-17) in high school, I was asked by people if I was teased. I always responded "Not to my face, no one is that stupid. And that is good enough for me.".

Quote:It was very telling when at one point he was telling his sister that he knew how much he let his parents do for him and he could do it himself but he liked being taken care of.

That is very bad. I hate being dependent on others (others are unreliable and mortal). Contrast that with me who does everything from himself (me) except provide housing. I do not rely on my mother's money, car or assistance except for living with her. I buy and make my own food and buy and clean my own clothes. If I suddenly had more income (ie, got hired), I would be able to move out and be independent in only a short time (the only delay would be for saving enough money for security and getting things I need. I don't supply everything, such as dishes and cleaning materials)

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14