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AdoramusTeChriste Wrote:Not to poke fun, but this was my immediate thought:

You don't get more awesome than Spock in this life.

Vulcans are highly emotional. They just supress it. I don't want to go into details and reveal how geeky I am, but we are not at all like Vulcans :)

This is more accurate:
[Image: the-terminator.jpg]
All right, but still --

LaRoza: I too am very fond at word games. Surely that is abstract? The problems come when it is in a social situation. One problem many have is with time. It is often a cause of great anxiety with people with AS. Being late and others being late is extremely annoying. This being literal is in the context of society.

Me: How is that a problem with taking things literally? You mean you expect people to arrive when they say that will, that you expect events to begin at the time stated? Is that not a case when it is correct to "take things literally"? I hate it when people are late and when they don't do what they said they were going to do; I hate it when I ask my husband when he's coming in to eat his dinner and he says, "In a minute," and then comes in half an hour later. I chalk up this sort of thing to the lack of consideration for others that seems to be endemic to contemporary Western people. Can you give another example of this social literalness?

LaRoza: The only way an NT perspective makes sense is around other NT's. AS works by itself. Imagine how useless your inbuilt feelings would be in a society which didn't share them. You'd be considered psychotic :)

Me: I have frequently noticed situations in which society doesn't share my feelings or lack thereof. Perhaps I am psychotic! Certainly I wouldn't call myself "neurotypical" without a number of disclaimers.
I suppose not all "aspies" are the same when it comes to emotions. Perhaps some are simmering kettles of emotion and others are more cool and collected, like you.

I'm not sure I understand your description of aspie-love, but then, love is a very difficult thing to explain.


 

Satori Wrote:How is that a problem with taking things literally? You mean you expect people to arrive when they say that will, that you expect events to begin at the time stated? Is that not a case when it is correct to "take things literally"? I hate it when people are late and when they don't do what they said they were going to do; I hate it when I ask my husband when he's coming in to eat his dinner and he says, "In a minute," and then comes in half an hour later. I chalk up this sort of thing to the lack of consideration for others that seems to be endemic to contemporary Western people. Can you give another example of this social literalness?
I don't want to give an example and have it set in stone. The literalness is a tendency, not something that can't be overcome.

Someone with AS will take things literally by default. It is easy to miss figures of speech, sarcasm, etc.

Quote:I suppose not all "aspies" are the same when it comes to emotions. Perhaps some are simmering kettles of emotion and others are more cool and collected, like you.

I'm not sure I understand your description of aspie-love, but then, love is a very difficult thing to explain.


 

Emotions are difficult to describe (for anyone). Some are more emotional than others, just like NT's, but most people with AS have very similiar views of emotion. To know if someone is happy to see you, upset, or whatever most NT's expect to know by the person's body movement and facial expression and will ask "what is wrong?" or whatever if they are concerned. For someone with AS, if they want you to know they will tell you and if you want us to know, you should tell us.
A video for the Aspies out there:

Human Behavior

by Bjork

LaRoza Wrote:Yes, they do eat you alive. They tease you and even physically harrass you. Teachers don't understand you. You have to gain respect by actively earning it. My intelligence gained me respect in the class room in school. As I grew, it was my physical appearance that gained it everywhere else. During the time I was a teenager (15-17) in high school, I was asked by people if I was teased. I always responded "Not to my face, no one is that stupid. And that is good enough for me.".
My son's joining wrestling (even though he isn't the greatest at it) has helped a lot in the physical respect department.  It was his first year wrestling, and he went from getting pinned in 45 seconds at the beginning of the season to lasting all rounds at the end of the season.  It has definitely helped his self-confidence and any teasing problems.  Especially because wrestlers tend to stick together.

I don't know if I'm aspie at all or not, but I had a similar experience with being teased until I started football and wrestling and inflicted violence upon others with complete disregard for my own well-being. ;)
Satori Wrote:LaRoza: I too am very fond at word games. Surely that is abstract? The problems come when it is in a social situation. One problem many have is with time. It is often a cause of great anxiety with people with AS. Being late and others being late is extremely annoying. This being literal is in the context of society.

Me: How is that a problem with taking things literally? You mean you expect people to arrive when they say that will, that you expect events to begin at the time stated? Is that not a case when it is correct to "take things literally"? I hate it when people are late and when they don't do what they said they were going to do; I hate it when I ask my husband when he's coming in to eat his dinner and he says, "In a minute," and then comes in half an hour later. I chalk up this sort of thing to the lack of consideration for others that seems to be endemic to contemporary Western people. Can you give another example of this social literalness?

Here is an example:

When the school bus is late, my son gets very upset.  It really throws him for a loop.  It can derange his day.  For most people, it's a pain in the butt, but for him it's more extreme.  How can I put it...

Imagine getting a call one morning from the county clerk that because your name was misspelled by one letter your marriage was not properly recorded and you are therefore not legally married.

The effect on him of the bus being late is similar.  A small thing like being late (or a misspelling) can derange his day (just as finding out you weren't legally married would derange your day).  It upsets him to a degree that many people (NTs?) would find inordinate, and it is hard for him to get past it.

But, maybe LaRoza can more accurately describe the exact mental-emotional impact of a bus being late to someone with AS...

All I can do, it seems, is try to teach him to intellectualize it and reconfigure his thought-process to deal with unforseen events like this.  Then he'll concentrate on what to do next instead of the fact the bus is late (which is also more productive).

Edited to add:

If I had to characterize it more generally, it seems like since he doesn't understand aspects of "social interactions" he doesn't understand why being late is, to most people, a somewhat flexible aspect of social interaction.  He expects some social interactions to follow hard and fast rules, and when those rules are broken, it doesn't compute.

2 + 2 = 4 is a rule. Imagine if suddenly someone says 2 + 2 = 5 and everyone around you says, "Sure, OK" and start balancing their checkbooks using 2 + 2 = 5.  You'd be like, "WTH? NO! 2+2=4 and it always equals 4.  You can't just change it!  It's going to mess everything up!"

Now imagine bus at 8:00 is a rule of the same magnitude and suddenly it comes at 8:05 and you feel compelled to say, "WTH? NO! The bus comes at 8 and it always comes at 8!  You can't just change it! It's going to mess everything up!"

Eh, I'm probably butchering it, but I think LaRoza and a few others will know what I mean and can put it into better terms.
QuisUtDeus Wrote:The effect on him of the bus being late is similar.  A small thing like being late (or a misspelling) can derange his day (just as finding out you weren't legally married would derange your day).  It upsets him to a degree that many people (NTs?) would find inordinate, and it is hard for him to get past it.

But, maybe LaRoza can more accurately describe the exact mental-emotional impact of a bus being late to someone with AS...

It is hard to explain really, but I found a good way to explain it to NT's. Also, it is not something that bothers me at all now, although it once did. I once stood at a bus stop for over two hours in winter without being the least bit upset, albeit, cold.

Quote:All I can do, it seems, is try to teach him to intellectualize it and reconfigure his thought-process to deal with unforseen events like this.  Then he'll concentrate on what to do next instead of the fact the bus is late (which is also more productive).
The way I got around it is by literally having no faith in other people. One must learn, and accept, that other people are not reliable and should never be trusted. This is not cynical, it is a fact that must be accepted. If someone tells me they will pay me back, I do not plan on it. I do not lend what I can't spare. If someone tells me they will pick me up at 4:30, I am ready and watching at 4:30, however, I will not be stressed at all if they never come (unless I have a reason to believe something bad may have happened). A person says they like me, and I value them as a friend, however, I will not miss them if they suddenly leave (all people with AS can probably do this anyway, but it is a good example nonetheless).

However, I stay true to my values. If I say I'll be ready at 4:15, I'm ready. If I say I'll do something, I'll do it (this is not the same as being told to do something).

I can only control myself and the things which I alone own (to me, that means my room and my things). That being said, any infringement on that, especially my clothes, is a great source of discomfort. Now, it is the only one.

Quote:Edited to add:

If I had to characterize it more generally, it seems like since he doesn't understand aspects of "social interactions" he doesn't understand why being late is, to most people, a somewhat flexible aspect of social interaction.
Yes, a suitable NT analogy would be imagine the worst day of your life, where everything goes wrong, and you come home to find a small expectation of yours has not been met (I do not want to write paragraphs explaining this, but I'm sure all NT's know of such a situation). That person will snap at the "small thing". The life of a person with AS is filled with stress. All interactions with people, even family. All times being outside. And most things inside (if one lives with others) are a source of stress comparable to a bad day for an NT. The little things are what we visibly react to. Imagine what we bear in silence...

Quote:He expects some social interactions to follow hard and fast rules, and when those rules are broken, it doesn't compute.
The only way to cope with this is to expect nothing of others. That takes time to develop (I don't know how old he is, so I can't give much else, but I wouldn't expect great changes in this until he is at least a teenager and it may get worse first before getting better).

Quote:Eh, I'm probably butchering it, but I think LaRoza and a few others will know what I mean and can put it into better terms.

It was pretty good. Superficial, like my evaluations of NT's :)

One thing I read in a book "Living and Loving with AS" (they spelled it out, I'm not going to) was that people with AS plan out their day by minute and do it mentally and even if they don't express it, if asked, they will be able to tell the plan without any trouble. I thought it was silly because I never thought of myself that way. One time in college I was with a friend (who I haven't seen in a while) and we were going see a movie, but she had a class. I knew what movie we were going to see and I mentally planned what we were going to do and when so we wouldn't miss the movie. It was natural and I didn't think of it. However, when she was asking about the times, and that she wanted to go to the mall to do something (all this was in the same vicinity, the theatre, college and the mall), I went along with it keeping track of the time. She seemed confused about what exactly we were doing, so I explained it (now I realize my plan was very exact, and if she had known of it in advance, it would likely have made it less fun for her, knowing I had the entire day planned in 15 minute increments. I only told when asked about specific times) and she looked at me (in amazement, I guess) and commented that I had my entire life planned. Then I realised that the book was true, and that NT's float around without any planning. I don't know how y'all do it.
It's been a while since I've scouted FE, and lo and behold I discover this thread: a discussion of Asperger's on a trad forum! Not something I was ever expecting to find, but true enough, if one was going to be found, it would be here.

I'm just testing the waters at this point - I'll explore all related threads before I really get to saying something - so by way of some initial words:

I'm 43, never married and never even close, who's had a very different life ever since I can remember, including becoming a "trad" at age 20 and was an SSPX seminarian in my late 20s. All the while, feeling lost as to why people didn't much like me and women had no interest in me despite me being a person of some integrity and conscience....

Last May, I got the break of my life in being tipped off that I might actually be "on the Spectrum," and my own reading really heightened my suspicions. So last summer I went in to a specialist for diagnosis, and sure enough. I'm what's called "HFA" (high-functioning autistic), only because I flunked condition (D) in the DSM's criteria for Asperger's, but I'm being treated in practical terms as an Asperger's case.

And have I got stories to tell ... yet I probably should not tell some of them. The Catholic traditionalist realm is not Asperger's-friendly, as I experienced it. But maybe some of the folks on this forum will be.
somerset76 Wrote:The Catholic traditionalist realm is not Asperger's-friendly, as I experienced it.

That is society in general. The Church has nothing against AS in anyway.
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