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In her writings, she said that satan had no idea that our Lord was Divine when he tormented Him in the garden of Mt. Olviet.

"It was hidden from him that Jesus was the Son of God, and he tempted him as merely the most righteous of men."
 
Do you think this is possible? Do you think that satan had no idea who our Lord was before his death; he no idea during Christ's Ministry on earth? It would seem to me to be impossible for him not to have known, given how our Lord fulfilled so many prophesies. Yet the Jews have the same problem, I suppose.

Anne Catherine Emmerich said that Magdalen perfumed or anointed our Lord many times. She said she almost questioned Magdalen's audacity (my word--I don't remember if that's exactly how Emmerich put it), but Jesus always allowed it. The last time Magdalen perfumed Him was the anointing for His burial, which He spoke of (in Scripture), just prior to the Last Supper. Do you suppose that Christ could smell that perfume during his agony; that it was a comfort to Him? Perhaps this is why He appeared to her first after the Resurrection. I like to think that we can offer Him things for His Agony in the Garden, too. St. Teresa of Calcutta said that His Agony in the Garden was even worse than the Crucifixion. I could see how she might think that. The anticipation of how horrible it would be could almost be worse, mentally anyway.
Jaca, my opinion is that Satan knew exactly who Jesus was in the Garden of Gethsemane. I think he knew who Jesus was when he tempted Him in the desert.. in the beginning of Our Lord's ministry. And perhaps before that. Was he the one who "inspired" King Herod to slaughter the innocents?

I don't know why Our Lord appeared to Magdalene first. My guess is because she was one of the first who arrived at the grave on Sunday morning. She stayed there and wept. Her fidelity was rewarded.
 
- Lisa

StrictCatholicGirl Wrote:Jaca, my opinion is that Satan knew exactly who Jesus was in the Garden of Gethsemane. I think he knew who Jesus was when he tempted Him in the desert.. in the beginning of Our Lord's ministry. And perhaps before that. Was he the one who "inspired" King Herod to slaughter the innocents?

I don't know why Our Lord appeared to Magdalene first. My guess is because she was one of the first who arrived at the grave on Sunday morning. She stayed there and wept. Her fidelity was rewarded.
 
- Lisa
Yes, the Slaughter of the Innocents; I had the same thought. But perhaps the devil only thought the Christ to be a great holy man.

If satan knew of His Divinity, it's pretty incredible that he should think he could ever tempt God, isn't it? Perhaps it was because of his pride that satan thought he could do this.
I wonder what, if anything scripture has to say about it.
Jacafamala Wrote:Yes, the Slaughter of the Innocents; I had the same thought. But perhaps the devil only thought the Christ to be a great holy man.
Could be.. But remember in various gospel passages when Jesus expelled demons, they cried out: "Why do you get in our way, Jesus of Nazareth? ... Did you come to destroy us? I know who YOU are: the HOLY ONE of God!" And Jesus ordered the demons to be QUIET - and then to come out of the possessed person.

Jacafamala Wrote:If satan knew of His Divinity, it's pretty incredible that he should think he could ever tempt God, isn't it? Perhaps it was because of his pride that satan thought he could do this.

Yes, everything the devil does is pretty incredible.. starting with Lucifer's fall, when he thought himself greater than God.

- Lisa
Jacafamala Wrote:Do you think this is possible? Do you think that satan had no idea who our Lord was before his death; he no idea during Christ's Ministry on earth?
It seems to be commonly held that Satan, to use a modern phrase, "didn't know who he was messing with."

Not only does Emmerich mention this in her work, but Frank Sheed's book To Know Christ Jesus posits that the devil did not know Christ was God. The devil only believed Christ was an unbelievably upright man. Maybe a mighty prophet, but never God.

Later this Sabbath I hope to read the portion of Sheed's book where Christ is tempted in the desert. If memory serves, this is also the place where the author describes the devil not knowing Who Christ was. As such, I will post the passage here upon reading it.

Quote:Do you suppose that Christ could smell that perfume during his agony; that it was a comfort to Him?


Perhaps, it would really depend on the "fixing" chemicals in the perfume. It's this poster's understanding that prior to the wide-scale use of ambergris which coincided with the rise of the whaling industry (ambergris is found inside of a whale's intestines), and the use of synthetic "fixers" in our day, it was difficult to have perfume hold its sent for any length of time.

One also must remember Christ spent the night of Good Friday being dragged to a number of kangaroo courts, ultimately being thrown in a dungeon and having the crap kicked out of Him. As such, the perfume probably wore down faster than it normally would, having been exposed to so many environments with their own different scents. But who knows....
Our lady made it known to Venerable Mary of Agreda that the Devil did not know for sure if Jesus was the Christ.  In Revelation we are told of the vision of the woman appearing in Heaven, clothed with the sun, with twelve stars for a crown.  The vision was shown to the angels, who were told of the hypostatic union, that the Word would become incarnate from this creature, and that she would be their queen.  They were futher told that all Creation was made to serve the Word.  Lucifer, in his pride, requested that a hypostatic union be conferred on him, that he should be the Christ.  When this proposal was rejected, he vowed to destroy the Christ, thus the rebellion in Heaven took place.  The creation of Adam and Eve was hidden from the fallen angel, and he assumed that the man had been born from the woman, and that he was the Christ.  He decided to attack the woman first as he was hesitant in challenging the man whom he assumed to be the Christ, as he was wary of him. 

When the Original Sin occurred, Satan thought that he had defeated Christ.  When he became aware that our original parents were not who he assumed them to be he was enraged, and ever after searched the Earth for the promised Christ.  Although Satan recognised a mysterious force in the Blessed Vrgin the circumstance of Our Lord's birth in the humble stable of Bethlehem caused him to dismiss the baby being Christ, as he judged the matter by his own pride, and assumed that Christ would come in a glorious manner.  Later, we are told that when he finally realises who Jesus is he appears to Judas in the guise of a man known to him, to try and persuade him to abandon his plan of betrayal of Our Lord, as he realised that His death would redeem man to God.  When he fails in this, his full fury is directed at Our Lord during the hours of the Passion. 


Quote:
The creation of Adam and Eve was hidden from the fallen angel, and he assumed that the man had been born from the woman, and that he was the Christ.  He decided to attack the woman first as he was hesitant in challenging the man whom he assumed to be the Christ, as he was wary of him. 
This was my favorite part of her vision. I thought it was such an interesting and very likely scenario. It explains his sneakiness and why he went to Eve first.
When he fails in this, his full fury is directed at Our Lord during the hours of the Passion. 


Those hoursof His suffering must have filled satan with both gloating and dread.
Quote:Do you suppose that Christ could smell that perfume during his agony; that it was a comfort to Him?
I'd never thought that before, but I'd like to, now. I suppose it would depend what find of perfume Magdalene used; pure essential plant oils can stay on the skin for a long time, and release scent with body heat. Modern perfumes are mostly alcohol based, and don't last very long on the skin (that's why we keep buying it!).

Perhaps, it would really depend on the "fixing" chemicals in the perfume. It's this poster's understanding that prior to the wide-scale use of ambergris which coincided with the rise of the whaling industry (ambergris is found inside of a whale's intestines), and the use of synthetic "fixers" in our day, it was difficult to have perfume hold its sent for any length of time.

Hmm, perhaps. Whatever it was, it was very expensive. I like to think it could have lasted through the Agony in the Garden.
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