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 Just freedom of action must, of course, be left both to individual citizens and to families, yet only on condition that the common good be preserved and wrong to any individual be abolished. The function of the rulers of the State, moreover, is to watch over the community and its parts; but in protecting private individuals in their rights, chief consideration ought to be given to the weak and the poor. "For the nation, as it were, of the rich is guarded by its own defenses and is in less need of governmental protection, whereas the suffering multitude, without the means to protect itself relies especially on the protection of the State. Wherefore, since wageworkers are numbered among the great mass of the needy, the State must include them under its special care and foresight."

Yet when the State brings private ownership into harmony with the needs of the common good, it does not commit a hostile act against private owners but rather does them a friendly service; for it thereby effectively prevents the private possession of goods, which the Author of nature in His most wise providence ordained for the support of human life, from causing intolerable evils and thus rushing to its own destruction; it does not destroy private possessions, but safeguards them; and it does not weaken private property rights, but strengthens them. (QA #49) http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius11/P11QUADR.HTM

Comment-the state can correct and defend, but cannot repalce the fmaily, Church,etc.....but it does NOT mean complete hands off, via "Free market" and the Hidden Hand that mysterously guides it........hidden hand is rather Masonic sounding, not surprising as it was NOT some mysterious Spanish monks, but Freemasons taht birthed our modern "free:market system...the same ones running Govt and running to govt for hand outs........
Distributism-a system calling for the widest distribution of property, and an economy based on the family…..
Running to govt. for handouts and receiving them is the antithesis of the free market. The free market is defined simply as the voluntary exchange of goods and services while upholding property rights. Nothing more. Not a federal reserve system, not corporate welfare, not anything that resembles the U.S. economy.

I don't for a second question the good intentions of the distributists. But choosing a time like this when the state is wielding unprecedented power over the life of man and Holy Mother Church, why come to it's defense for anything? You can rest assured that the free market that you dreadfully fear is dead. The State however is at its strongest in human history.
Distributionism sounds nice but like its counterpart Socialism there is no way to enforce it without stamping on the rights of individuals.

I believe in the free market system. Let be. If people won't help their fellow men then so be it. God will judge them. I don't want any government, no matter how "Catholic" it may be, interferring with our money.  
"Thou Shalt Not Steal."  The hallmark of Christian morality is universality.  The moral law against stealing should apply to everyone, even those employed by the State.  A State barred from stealing is a State barred from taxing.  In short, it is a State that ceases to be a State, as the word is commonly employed.     

Only a free-market system--which by definition recognizes property rights and the legitimacy of contract and exchange--is consistent with Seventh Amendment universality.  Socialism, distributism, fascism, corporatism, mixed-economy Americanism--none of these political-economic systems is consistent with the Seventh Amendment.  
Monarchy is consistent with the Seventh Amendment, but only if the monarch refrains from stealing.  The same goes for democracy, panarchy and constitutionalism. 
didishroom Wrote:Distributionism sounds nice but like its counterpart Socialism there is no way to enforce it without stamping on the rights of individuals.

I believe in the free market system. Let be. If people won't help their fellow men then so be it. God will judge them. I don't want any government, no matter how "Catholic" it may be, interferring with our money.  

Individuals have no rights, they have duties. As long as you are stuck in modern errors of liberalism, you just won't get it.
Capitalism is a neo-pagan system based on the Stoic philosophy re-imported into the Western world during the Renaissance.
It's rooted in a concept of pagan Roman law called dominium (related to the law of the paterfamilias which governed the οικοι of pagan Rome)
The "free - market" is an ethics free concept of pure secular reason.
kjvail Wrote:Individuals have no rights, they have duties. As long as you are stuck in modern errors of liberalism, you just won't get it.

I agree with you in principle.  Certainly, many of our "rights" are actually duties before God that others must maintain, and from that we have a "right".  But even so, there are duties before God that give us property rights.  For example, "Thou shalt not steal" - well, stealing implies taking something from someone who rightfully owns it, thus the duty not to steal gives us a "right" to own things. 

As far as Capitalism and other forms of government go, I don't think God has a strong opinion as long as they operate within His rules.  If people want to buy and sell priced on supply and demand, etc., it's not clear to me that there is a big problem with that as long as they do so morally.  Price gouging would be wrong, as well as Ponzai schemes, insider trading, etc.

Quote:Capitalism is a neo-pagan system based on the Stoic philosophy re-imported into the Western world during the Renaissance.

True, but Scholasticism is largely based on Aristotelian philosophy re-imported into the Western world during the Middle Ages.  A pagan start doesn't mean it can't have a Catholic end.
anamchara Wrote:"Thou Shalt Not Steal."  The hallmark of Christian morality is universality.  The moral law against stealing should apply to everyone, even those employed by the State.  A State barred from stealing is a State barred from taxing.  In short, it is a State that ceases to be a State, as the word is commonly employed.     

Only a free-market system--which by definition recognizes property rights and the legitimacy of contract and exchange--is consistent with Seventh Amendment universality.  Socialism, distributism, fascism, corporatism, mixed-economy Americanism--none of these political-economic systems is consistent with the Seventh Amendment.  
Monarchy is consistent with the Seventh Amendment, but only if the monarch refrains from stealing.  The same goes for democracy, panarchy and constitutionalism. 

This is totally against Catholic doctrine (read, for instance, Leo XIII's Immortale Dei).

And it's the Seventh Commandment.
Quote:As far as Capitalism and other forms of government go, I don't think God has a strong opinion as long as they operate within His rules.  If people want to buy and sell priced on supply and demand, etc., it's not clear to me that there is a big problem with that as long as they do so morally.  Price gouging would be wrong, as well as Ponzai schemes, insider trading, etc.

The problem is you will never get justice out of a system that is purposefully set up to exclude it. You will never re-constitute any sort of community or dominance of the Christian faith with the individualism of the capitalist system gnawing at the foundations.
Capitalism is a demonination of the religion of secularism. It is to economics what Darwinism is to biology or liberalism is to politics. It's a competing faith claim totally at odds with the demands of a Christianized society.

Quote:True, but Scholasticism is largely based on Aristotelian philosophy re-imported into the Western world during the Middle Ages.  A pagan start doesn't mean it can't have a Catholic end

Re-imported yes, but suitably modified. For instance, in Aristotle's Ethics, the highest value is magnanimity which is manifested in grand shows of wealth and power. It creates a "hero" ethic where the goal is to win.
St. Thomas modifies this in his treatment of Aristotle's ethics to conform to the law of Christian charity and humility.
This is how the Father's of the Church handled Platonism and Stoicism in the first millennium as well. The took what was good, true and beautiful about it and co-opted its categories as a tool in the propagation of the Gospel. This is a vastly different program than that undertaken from the Renaissance onward. 

When the Renaissance philosophers such as Hobbes, Locke and Machiavelli looked at pagan, classical philosophy they didn't see an inferior but useful system which could be modified as a tool of theology. They saw a substitute for Christian theology. They saw a philosophy which could construct a "secular reason". The precursors for this are in Scotist ontology and that's a rather detailed and complex discussion.
This is how the concept of secular reason came into existence. The idea that there are areas of the world which are to be managed without the "interference" of theology. This begins the whole absurdity of "faith vs reason".
Locke, Smith, &c designed the philosophy of "the market" to be a place were value was determined by autonomous choice rather than the demands of justice (properly understood by causitry, not Kantian universalisms).

state intervention in the economy in distributism is never theft and never against the rights of individuals; it is, in fact, the exact opposite.  It is taking away from those who have stolen (even if that theft occurred through business practices which would be legal under capitalism) what they have stolen, it is taking away from those who have profited from usury their usurious profit.  it is never taking away property from someone who justly obtained that property.
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