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I'm in RCIA and today we celebrated (is that the right word) the first Scrutiny.

Let me backtrack for a moment: I learned the Nicene Creed on my own a few weeks ago from the Catechism. Since learning it, I noticed that I would get "lost" from the rest of the congregation at the same spot where we recite "For us men and for our salvation."

I could never figure out why I was messing up until today at the first Scrutiny. We were lined up in front of the altar and were given cards to read from so that we could recite the creed along with the congregation. When we got to the part I have trouble with, I realized that it wasn't me; the card omitted the word "men." I can only assume that the parish, being as liberal as it is, omits this word purposely (it is very, very liberal).

Is that even allowed? I've been witnessing things at this parish that I do not agree with, and have already decided that I will only attend Mass there every once in a while once I'm baptized. Some examples include the head pastor's dog sleeping on the altar during Mass and another pastor having us sit on the altar during daily Mass because there's only 3 or 4 people there (I only attended daily Mass once there because of this...it didn't feel right). I don't know what are liturgical abuses and what aren't, but I did start reading the GIRM so that I can have an idea.

Anyways, thanks in advance for the help. I don't want to sound like I'm judging the parish as I'm just a new member to the Church and have questions.

No doubt it's not allowed but they do this at my old parish too. [Image: hoppingmad.gif]
This poster has noticed the same on occasion too. Why can't people just read what the text says?

The problem is that English is a rather gender-neutral language. People are not exposed to gendered words in language as much as in French or Spanish. As such, we English speakers have a rather low cultural immunity to feminist accusations that lines like "for us men..." are "sexist."
Indeed this is not allowed but at my parish (bear in mind this is conservative for my area) we don't always even say the creed. A bit of advice when you finish RCIA get out of there it sounds horrible and can't be good for your spiritual health (just my 2 cents). THe Priests dog sleeps on the Alter are you serious?!
One more thing, as a bone to the liberals when the new Mass translation is released in 2095 or so unless they hurry the heck up the " for us MEN" will be dropped to "for us" also parishes will be allowed to use a gender inclusive Bible translation all with the blessing of the "conservative" Pope.
Please don't sit on the altar. Just because the ask or tell you to, doesn't mean you have to do it.

I converted in a mega-liberal parish as well, but always knew I would return to my 'home' parish where I came to His Church in the first place (which for various reasons didn't have an RCIA, long story) immediately after the sacraments.

So, I went, but I didn't do everything they asked. I wouldn't sit on the altar, I wouldn't chit-chat in front of the Eucharist when they wanted to have a 'chat' in the Church, and I was obstinate about it. I'd stand politely where I could observe reverently and not turn my back and idly chat, or crossing in front without a profound bow etc. I wouldn't do centering prayers, but I just sat quietly while they did, I didn't raise a ruckus. I took 1st Holy Communion kneeling and on the tongue even though the nun that ran RCIA ommitted the possibility of doing so, and insisted that 'we don't do it that way anymore' when I asked (in my Diocese both postures are allowed, so I knew I was allowed to), I didn't argue, I just did it that way when it came time for my 1st communion. The priest was caught a tad offguard, but that's because the pastor decided (it seemed) at the 11th hour that he wanted to give the 1st communion to the 'candidates' and catechumens, after I'd already run it by the associate pastor (who was supposed to be the priest doing it, again, until the 11th hour for some reason). So, I wasn't trying to catch anyone offguard, I talked to the associate, he said 'not a problem at all' and the pastor ended up being the one handling it-- uh oh!

Anyway, you don't *have* to do any of the nonsense if it's nonsense. Don't get indignant, just stand your ground if it's pretty wrong. The lack of reverence around the Blessed Sacrament I just couldn't abide by for example, and there was no way I was going to 'hang out' and giggle and chat in front of Our Lord.
Iuvenalis Wrote:Please don't sit on the altar. Just because the ask or tell you to, doesn't mean you have to do it.

I converted in a mega-liberal parish as well, but always knew I would return to my 'home' parish where I came to His Church in the first place (which for various reasons didn't have an RCIA, long story) immediately after the sacraments.

So, I went, but I didn't do everything they asked. I wouldn't sit on the altar, I wouldn't chit-chat in front of the Eucharist when they wanted to have a 'chat' in the Church, and I was obstinate about it. I'd stand politely where I could observe reverently and not turn my back and idly chat, or crossing in front without a profound bow etc. I wouldn't do centering prayers, but I just sat quietly while they did, I didn't raise a ruckus. I took 1st Holy Communion kneeling and on the tongue even though the nun that ran RCIA ommitted the possibility of doing so, and insisted that 'we don't do it that way anymore' when I asked (in my Diocese both postures are allowed, so I knew I was allowed to), I didn't argue, I just did it that way when it came time for my 1st communion. The priest was caught a tad offguard, but that's because the pastor decided (it seemed) at the 11th hour that he wanted to give the 1st communion to the 'candidates' and catechumens, after I'd already run it by the associate pastor (who was supposed to be the priest doing it, again, until the 11th hour for some reason). So, I wasn't trying to catch anyone offguard, I talked to the associate, he said 'not a problem at all' and the pastor ended up being the one handling it-- uh oh!

Anyway, you don't *have* to do any of the nonsense if it's nonsense. Don't get indignant, just stand your ground if it's pretty wrong. The lack of reverence around the Blessed Sacrament I just couldn't abide by for example, and there was no way I was going to 'hang out' and giggle and chat in front of Our Lord.

Maybe I should start standing my ground like you did? People do try to talk to me all the time during Mass, and I do ignore them. I think I'm going to say "men" extra loudly during the Nicene Creed, not to be disrespectful, but to maybe show my displeasure with their omission.
Quote:Maybe I should start standing my ground like you did? People do try to talk to me all the time during Mass, and I do ignore them. I think I'm going to say "men" extra loudly during the Nicene Creed, not to be disrespectful, but to maybe show my displeasure with their omission.

Well, agree to disagree, but I think that would be disrespectful to do anything 'extra loud' during Mass. Most NO parish Masses are cacophany anyway, with their snare drums, bass guitars, blues kyries (which isn't even 'kyrie' of course), nu-metal Glorias, etc. By the way, just to be clear, I'm not making up this stuff about the genre-ized parts of the Mass, this parish I'm referring to actually does this, even with an old 'one more time!' fairly often, so they're actually altering liturgy to do the 'Sanctus' (actually 'holy, holy etc.' since they use English there not Latin) more than is called for with their little 'coda'.
Iuvenalis Wrote:Well, agree to disagree, but I think that would be disrespectful to do anything 'extra loud' during Mass.

Point taken. I won't do it but it does make me unhappy.

Thanks again.
damooster Wrote:
Iuvenalis Wrote:Well, agree to disagree, but I think that would be disrespectful to do anything 'extra loud' during Mass.

Point taken. I won't do it but it does make me unhappy.

Thanks again.
You could always just say it normal volume at least then you are saying it correctly this is what I do.
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