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Full Version: Are things really getting better?
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In the post-Summorum-Pontificum era, some trads seem to feel that traditionalism is on the ascendancy, that restoration is inevitable even if it will be gradual, that every little crucifix on an altar or parish implementing the TLM is a good sign, in a "brick by brick" approach.

But I'm really starting to wonder if it isnt really so much restoration as desperation. If, far from being a sign of things going back, it is simply one more slice of the "anything goes" pie. If it isnt more like the desperate dying atheist who is willing to try anything, even religion. But of course, without faith, there will be no miracle. And I'm starting to wonder if reaching out to trads is a half-hearted and un-committed gesture on the part of a dying church that is also trying all sorts of other voodoo cures.

Remember, this same church that restored the TLM...also just approved the Neocatechumenal Way. And this same Pope that some trads seem to like so much, has also visited a synagogue and a mosque.

I'm starting to wonder if the little bit of lip service to traditionalism isnt just a way to co-opt trads into the mainstream so that they can be baited into the One World Religion too...

sad sad sad
Our Lord said the gates of hell would not prevail against his Church.  Have a little faith, child.
The people in Bible times thought things couldn't get worse. If you read sermons from 400 years ago, all hell was breaking loose. The same 183 years ago (I'm just throwing out numbers here), society couldn't further downhill. Conversely, folk often try to print the present as the best time in human history. The faith in progress and technology to solve all of mankind's problems was sickening high at the turn of the last century, and then again in the 1950s and 60s. Things ebb and flow.

There's little doubt, even in the mainstream dummed-down media, that things are getting more conservative in the Church. In a few generations I have no doubt there will be a new outbreak of heresy.

I believe none of us will live to see the real effects of SP. In the meantime however, this is an excellent website dedicated to highlighting the workings out of SP: http://www.newliturgicalmovement.org/
Maybe you need to reconsider your view of tradition - with a small "t". The Church as a divine institution never changes. But the Church in her human element always goes forward. We never go back. Even if all rites were restored to the way they were before Vatican II - everything would still be different because we are fifty years older. Our understanding has changed. Our experience has changed. For 2000 years we have learned through trial and error (not the Church as a divine institution - but as a people).

Now the Holy Spirit prunes the field and throws out what is unnecessary and retains or restores what is necessary. Church time is linear with the Second Coming at the finish line. We must continually keep our eyes fixed on what is ahead, while being fueled-up on what came before.

The "Neocatechumenal Way" could be a phase in the big scheme of things. Look at how long the Rite of Catechumens itself was phased out of the Church - only to be brought back after the Second Vatican Council. Same with the permanent diaconate. The charismatic movement has lost much of its wind. The Jesuits were once suppressed, then reinstated. None of these define tradition with a Big "T" or a little "t." They are organizations, ministries, movements, religious orders. All are subject to change or growth or extinction. Fight to keep what is RIGHT - not just tradition (or change) for its own sake. And trust the words of Our Lord who said "the gates of hell will not prevail."

- Lisa
I truly believe things are going uphill. There were alot of things in JPII"s pontificate that people saw as good signs but nothing came from them. Alot of it was wishful thinking. Now while some Trads are maybe a little too optimistic, the Summorum Pontificum has only bore good fruits. Visit the NewLiturgicalMovement blog and see how practically every week some NO chapel is now saying the Latin Mass or at least facing east and fixing up their altars and becoming more reverent. Change is coming. Traditonal orders are growing the elders of Vatican II are old dying.

Well, we just added another TLM to our diocese roll call...I am encouraged by that.  Our bishop speaks out for life, that is good.  Our Catholic homeschool group is growing bigger all the time, praise the Lord.  Like was mentioned above, the gates of hell will not prevail.
(04-23-2009, 09:42 PM)7HolyCats Wrote: [ -> ]And I'm starting to wonder if reaching out to trads is a half-hearted and un-committed gesture on the part of a dying church that is also trying all sorts of other voodoo cures.
I think that that is the hierachys intention but, by these acts God is restoring the CHurch. Like Didishroom said there are new TLMs poping up all the time. THis isnt the JPII days where the Pope would say something heterodox and the neocons would jump over eachother to justify it. The real Mass has been liberated the excommunications lifted all impossible just 5 years ago. I think things will get better. The younger pepople Italk to my age (27) all like reverance and beauty in worship sure there are some bad apples but there always will be and the Vatican II pantsuit nun crowd is fading away with no one to replace them. Things will improve the gates of hell can not prevail.
In short, I'd say things are definitely looking up.

7Cats, were you around in the 70s?

- Lisa
In other words, the things we love to bitch about are slowly disappearing. So, we need something ELSE to bitch about. So let's bitch about it not happening as soon as we'd like.




Exactly.
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