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(07-07-2009, 09:43 AM)CollegeCatholic Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-07-2009, 09:23 AM)Underdog Wrote: [ -> ]Bishop Williamson decided to treat a subject he has absolutely no knowledge about.

http://www.womenstennisblog.com/2009/03/...-wta-tour/
Quote:It’s official: Kim Clijsters will again play on the Sony Ericsson WTA Tour. Her return from retirement is planned for the US hardcourt season.

The former world No.1 has asked for Cincinnati, Toronto and US Open wildcards. According to the plans, the tennis player who retired in May 2007 will make her comeback on August 10, at the Cincinnati Open.

"When I started preparing for the Wimbledon game with Steffi Graf I felt this drive. I wanted a new challenge. This is just for fun for now to see if I can do it," said the 25-year-old Clijsters, the winner of 34 singles titles.

"I don't need to be number one again. I have done that and I don't need to do it again. I am just going to see how things evolve."

After retiring from tennis, Clijsters married basketball player Brian Lynch and gave birth to daughter Jada. (source: Reuters, photo: Stephane Martinache)

http://thetennistimes.com/lindsay-davenp...baby-girl/
Quote:It has been reported that three time Grand Slam champion Lindsay Davenport has given birth to her second child. Davenport gave birth to a healthy baby girl and she and husband Jon Leach cant be happier. They have named the new baby Lauren Andrus Davenport Leach. The married couple already have a two-year old son named Jagger.

Tony Godsick, the tennis star’s agent, said on Sunday that both the mom and daughter are doing great. He added that the other members of the family were ecstatic.

(bolded by me for emphasis)

Apparently one can be both a mother and a professional tennis player at the same time.

Steffi Graf:
After retiring, she married Andre Agassi on October 22, 2001, with only their mothers as witnesses.[20] Four days later Steffi gave birth, six weeks prematurely, to their son Jaden Gil (named after Andre's longtime trainer Gil Reyes). Their daughter, Jaz Elle, was born October 3, 2003.


Frankly, it seems tennis pros don't have a long career. 

Maybe we should ridicule the spinsters for not having babies.  They're obviously doing something wrong and contributing to the birth rate decline.

Underdog and CollegeCatholic:

You're getting too hung up on tennis. The Bishop's argument goes like this: We live in a culture that both promotes and exploits the masculinization of females. Professional women's tennis is but one particular example of the larger cultural milieu. One side effect of this general denaturing of women is a declining birthrate.
(07-07-2009, 10:02 AM)ErinIsNice Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-07-2009, 09:46 AM)lamentabili sane Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-07-2009, 03:34 AM)Iuvenalis Wrote: [ -> ]
Quote:    "How many young girls there are who do not see any wrongdoing in following certain shameless styles like so many sheep. They certainly would blush if they could guess the impression they make and the feelings they evoke in those who see them. Do they not see the harm resulting from excess in certain gymnastic exercises and sports not suitable for virtuous girls? What sins are committed or provoked by conversations which are too free, by immodest shows, by dangerous reading. How lax have consciences become, how pagan morals!"
-Pope Pius XII

And what about this, ladies?

It says certain exercises, but interestingly, does not say what those are...  
I'm just guessing here, but the following sentence naming immodest shows makes me think he might be referring to burlesque without being too blunt.

I was actually going to post

"What, was he talking about the professional sport of stripping" :laughing: :laughing:


You beat me to it.
a opps double post...not modified until this deletion

LS and others like to quote things that no one has an issue with and then pretend that these statements somehow support their positions.   That's just not the case.


Having a large set of books in front of you for the issue at hand is laughable in the extreme.   There is a lot of that on this board, a bunch of pontificating religious zealots operating from bitter zeal.

It is not required to have some sort of "anit-american anti-modern world" persona to attend SSPX, SSPV or even CMRI chapels.   Those of you who cultivate this uncatholic attitude do the rest of society no favors since you are not likely to get many converts and you hamper others in their conversion activities because they have to explain that puritans exist in the trad movement and have all sorts of goofy notions because they have been put in a corner by the Church and been under fire for so long that they have sort of removed themselves from the world entirely.

It makes things very difficult.
CollegeCatholic Wrote:Do I have an obligation to understand and know moral theology?

Yes, insofar as it comes to bear practically on your own life and on your discernment regarding the cultural mores of the time and place in which you live.
(07-07-2009, 11:03 AM)Scipio_a Wrote: [ -> ]LS and others like to quote things that no one has an issue with and then pretend that these statements somehow support their positions.   That's just not the case.


Having a large set of books in front of you for the issue at hand is laughable in the extreme.   There is a lot of that on this board, a bunch of pontificating religious zealots operating from bitter zeal.

It is not required to have some sort of "anit-american anti-modern world" persona to attend SSPX, SSPV or even CMRI chapels.   Those of you who cultivate this uncatholic attitude do the rest of society no favors since you are not likely to get many converts and you hamper others in their conversion activities because they have to explain that puritans exist in the trad movement and have all sorts of goofy notions because they have been put in a corner by the Church and been under fire for so long that they have sort of removed themselves from the world entirely.

It makes things very difficult.

I don't have "a position".  It appears that you and your ilk like to pretend that what is quoted does not apply to you somehow or is outdated. Then you make fun of seeking knowlege in these areas (by reading approved sources that explain what the Church teaches).
No seeking of knowledge is going on here, clearly! You make the argument 1. The Church teaches that certain physical activities are inappropriate, 2. Women's sports are the physical activities meant. Therefore, women's sports are immoral . But then you expect us to gloss over the fact that you provide no evidence at all for premise 2! Eminent moral theologians are expected to have the basics of logic down.
(07-07-2009, 10:51 AM)lamentabili sane Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-07-2009, 10:29 AM)CollegeCatholic Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-07-2009, 10:26 AM)lamentabili sane Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-07-2009, 10:21 AM)CollegeCatholic Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-07-2009, 10:17 AM)lamentabili sane Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-07-2009, 10:02 AM)ErinIsNice Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-07-2009, 09:46 AM)lamentabili sane Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-07-2009, 03:34 AM)Iuvenalis Wrote: [ -> ]
Quote:    "How many young girls there are who do not see any wrongdoing in following certain shameless styles like so many sheep. They certainly would blush if they could guess the impression they make and the feelings they evoke in those who see them. Do they not see the harm resulting from excess in certain gymnastic exercises and sports not suitable for virtuous girls? What sins are committed or provoked by conversations which are too free, by immodest shows, by dangerous reading. How lax have consciences become, how pagan morals!"
-Pope Pius XII

And what about this, ladies?

It says certain exercises, but interestingly, does not say what those are...  
I'm just guessing here, but the following sentence naming immodest shows makes me think he might be referring to burlesque without being too blunt.

So because he does not say...we cannot know at all? This is a moral question and admidts to degrees.

This is 1954, mind you. "How lax have consciences become, how pagan morals!"

It's part of that vagueness-Modernist disease that infected the Vatican!!!!

No, it is the very nature of a moral question. You make a joke about it because you don't understand moral theology.

I make a joke about it because we have no idea about what he's talking.

His phrase sounds like he's got a few choice things in mind.  He doesn't bother to tell us.

Also, I joke about it because I find your reactions foolish. 

Maybe you understand moral theology, I don't care.  Do I have an obligation to understand and know moral theology?  If the answer is no, then I couldn't care less.  The theologians and the bishops, and the popes can hash that out. 

You do have an obligation to form your conscience correctly according to the Church's moral teachings. You appear to "okay" with a lax conscience.

Well, thank you for your opinions on my conscience.  I know darn well what I believe and I am constantly conforming my will and conscience to the Church.
(07-07-2009, 10:59 AM)Binx Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-07-2009, 09:43 AM)CollegeCatholic Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-07-2009, 09:23 AM)Underdog Wrote: [ -> ]Bishop Williamson decided to treat a subject he has absolutely no knowledge about.

http://www.womenstennisblog.com/2009/03/...-wta-tour/
Quote:It’s official: Kim Clijsters will again play on the Sony Ericsson WTA Tour. Her return from retirement is planned for the US hardcourt season.

The former world No.1 has asked for Cincinnati, Toronto and US Open wildcards. According to the plans, the tennis player who retired in May 2007 will make her comeback on August 10, at the Cincinnati Open.

"When I started preparing for the Wimbledon game with Steffi Graf I felt this drive. I wanted a new challenge. This is just for fun for now to see if I can do it," said the 25-year-old Clijsters, the winner of 34 singles titles.

"I don't need to be number one again. I have done that and I don't need to do it again. I am just going to see how things evolve."

After retiring from tennis, Clijsters married basketball player Brian Lynch and gave birth to daughter Jada. (source: Reuters, photo: Stephane Martinache)

http://thetennistimes.com/lindsay-davenp...baby-girl/
Quote:It has been reported that three time Grand Slam champion Lindsay Davenport has given birth to her second child. Davenport gave birth to a healthy baby girl and she and husband Jon Leach cant be happier. They have named the new baby Lauren Andrus Davenport Leach. The married couple already have a two-year old son named Jagger.

Tony Godsick, the tennis star’s agent, said on Sunday that both the mom and daughter are doing great. He added that the other members of the family were ecstatic.

(bolded by me for emphasis)

Apparently one can be both a mother and a professional tennis player at the same time.

Steffi Graf:
After retiring, she married Andre Agassi on October 22, 2001, with only their mothers as witnesses.[20] Four days later Steffi gave birth, six weeks prematurely, to their son Jaden Gil (named after Andre's longtime trainer Gil Reyes). Their daughter, Jaz Elle, was born October 3, 2003.


Frankly, it seems tennis pros don't have a long career. 

Maybe we should ridicule the spinsters for not having babies.  They're obviously doing something wrong and contributing to the birth rate decline.

Underdog and CollegeCatholic:

You're getting too hung up on tennis. The Bishop's argument goes like this: We live in a culture that both promotes and exploits the masculinization of females. Professional women's tennis is but one particular example of the larger cultural milieu. One side effect of this general denaturing of women is a declining birthrate.

But, how many women participate seriously in these activities?  They are but a mere slice of the population.  Attacking women's sports, and saying that they are a cause of societal decline is laughable. 

Maybe the bishop ought to worry more about the women in the workplace, and such.  Not those on the tennis courts.
(07-07-2009, 11:10 AM)Binx Wrote: [ -> ]
CollegeCatholic Wrote:Do I have an obligation to understand and know moral theology?

Yes, insofar as it comes to bear practically on your own life and on your discernment regarding the cultural mores of the time and place in which you live.

No, you do not have an obligation to understand and know moral theology unless your vocation is for religious life or a profession (law, medicine, etc.).
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