FishEaters Traditional Catholic Forums

Full Version: I'm thinking about going Byzantine
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
Pages: 1 2
(07-23-2009, 12:04 PM)catholicschoolmom Wrote: [ -> ]On a related note about Byzantine vs. Roman ,  I was baptized and confirmed in the Byzantine rite, which are both done as an infant... however, when I got married, we were married in a Roman rite church (NO, but nothing crazy, happy/clappy).  Before we were married and met with the priest, he said there was "paperwork" that had to be sent to the Bishop and made me sign some kind of papers saying that I was being released from the Byzantine church and was now a member of the Roman rite and had to promise to raise my kids Roman Catholic.  At the time, a million years ago, it didn't matter to me, but now that almost all the NO churches around us are over the top with Charismatic, Life Teen, etc., I am also interested in going back to Byzantine... But now I am wondering.... what am I??  Would I have to switch back again?  What about my kids??  I am guessing that Catholic is Catholic, but in the back of my mind, I'm starting to question whether I did something 'bad' or not.

Since almost everyone on Fish Eaters is so unbelievably knowledgeable about all the rules/regs regarding the church, I figure someone out there can answer.  THANKS

I am pretty sure a person can only switch rites once in their lifetime.
(07-22-2009, 12:11 AM)DJR Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-21-2009, 09:53 PM)sushieater Wrote: [ -> ]Well, not permanently. Just once at least. I'm in love with the Tridentine Mass.

I went to my first Traditional Latin Mass last Sunday. It was a Low Mass. The experience was  a little strange (because it's my first), but I'm absolutely pleased with the Mass! I'm getting ready to order a Missal from either Angelus or Baronius Press.

In the coming weekend I won't be able to attend the Latin Mass because of the hours, distance, and visiting guests from out of town. Since I don't work on Sundays anymore, I thought I'd take the chance to visit the local Byzantine Church.

It's Catholic, different, but Catholic. I'd like to have the experience to compare with the Novus Ordo and the Latin Mass. I think by attending the Byzantine church, I could learn a little more about the Catholic faith. But I could be wrong. I actually had an interest in the Byzantine Mass before the Latin Mass back when I thought the Latin Mass was simply the same Mass in vernacular language, with priest with his back turned, and the members receiving the Eucharist on the tongue, kneeling.

So revisiting the idea of going to a Byzantine rite Mass, I've found this as a guide http://www.stbasilsinirving.org/stb/whattoexpect .  Anyone got any other advice, suggestions, or thoughts?

Also, like in the Latin Rite (Novus Ordo), are there liberal influences, charismatic movements, and liturgical abuses?

Having been a member of Byzantine parishes for decades (Ruthenian and Melkite), I can tell you that they have problems just like everywhere else.  The liturgical anomalies are kept to a minimum, but they crop up here and there.  I once witnessed a nun giving out Holy Communion at the Divine Liturgy, which was forbidden at the time.  And I don't care for the revised liturgy, but that's a preference.  My experience has been that no place is perfect, even the Traditionalist venues.  But then I'm not perfect either.

Go to the Byzantine parish and keep your focus on the worship of God.  You'll do fine.

True-have a freind that was considering priesthood, stil ltaking Deacon classes, from what he tells me, Americanism/Neocon/Post V2 is rampant there too in mindset, if not DL.....
(07-23-2009, 06:51 AM)glgas Wrote: [ -> ]The recent problem with the Eastern Catholics (outside of Central Europe) is that they snake married priests into the West, as clear disobedience against the Holy See. The disobedience destroys.


(07-21-2009, 09:53 PM)sushieater Wrote: [ -> ]Well, not permanently. Just once at least. I'm in love with the Tridentine Mass.

I went to my first Traditional Latin Mass last Sunday. It was a Low Mass. The experience was  a little strange (because it's my first), but I'm absolutely pleased with the Mass! I'm getting ready to order a Missal from either Angelus or Baronius Press.

In the coming weekend I won't be able to attend the Latin Mass because of the hours, distance, and visiting guests from out of town. Since I don't work on Sundays anymore, I thought I'd take the chance to visit the local Byzantine Church.

It's Catholic, different, but Catholic. I'd like to have the experience to compare with the Novus Ordo and the Latin Mass. I think by attending the Byzantine church, I could learn a little more about the Catholic faith. But I could be wrong. I actually had an interest in the Byzantine Mass before the Latin Mass back when I thought the Latin Mass was simply the same Mass in vernacular language, with priest with his back turned, and the members receiving the Eucharist on the tongue, kneeling.

So revisiting the idea of going to a Byzantine rite Mass, I've found this as a guide http://www.stbasilsinirving.org/stb/whattoexpect .  Anyone got any other advice, suggestions, or thoughts?

Also, like in the Latin Rite (Novus Ordo), are there liberal influences, charismatic movements, and liturgical abuses?

Actuall, west persecuted Byzantines more than reverse......sneaking married priests? was never a problems in Europe or Canada.....why should it be here? It is their tradition.........not some big conspiracy......how is it disobiediant to Holy See? They have always been allowed to marry, then become priests.......only problem was here in turn of 20th C with Roman Rite bishops, causing some to leave for Orthodox pastures....alot of discrimination......please show as Papal documents that prove said disobidiance.........
(07-23-2009, 12:49 PM)Belloc Wrote: [ -> ]Actuall, west persecuted Byzantines more than reverse......sneaking married priests? was never a problems in Europe or Canada.....

It was a problem awhile back in Canada among the Ukrainians.  It made the Catholic headlines. 


Taken from Angelus Online.
Quote:Vatican Orders Suspension of Married Ukrainian Catholic Priests
Edmonton, Alberta (RNS) — The Vatican has ordered the suspension of about 10 Ukrainian Catholic priests in Canada on the grounds that they were improperly ordained.

The action opens an old wound in Roman Catholic-Ukrainian Catholic relations—the compulsory celibacy required of Ukrainian Catholic priests in North America—and could prompt a schism in the church, a leading Ukrainian Catholic bishop has warned.

The Vatican's action, outlined in a letter to Ukrainian Catholic bishops in North America from the Vatican's representatives in Canada and the United States, is directed at married North American men who have gone to Ukraine to be ordained and now serve parishes in Canada and the United States.

Although priests in Eastern-rite churches are traditionally married, the Vatican has forbidden the ordination of married men in Eastern-rite churches under its control in North America since 1929. Eastern-rite churches subject to the pope, such as Ukrainian Catholics, are expected to follow Roman Catholic rules for celibacy. The priests in question were ordained in Ukraine, where the rules do not apply. But the Vatican is calling into question the validity of the bishops who performed the ordinations.

According to the Union of Brest of 1596, by which many Ukrainian Orthodox believers recognized the pope as head of the church, the Ukrainians could retain their Eastern liturgy and traditions, including married priests. But since the 1800's, the leadership of the Roman Catholic Church has attempted to impose Roman-style celibacy on Ukrainian Catholic clergy.

Bishop Borecky argued against designation of the Ukrainian Catholic bishops as "clandestine" or irregular. The Ukrainian Catholic church is illegal in the Soviet Union, and many of its bishops and priests have been imprisoned since 1946, when the church was forced by Stalin to join the Russian Orthodox Church.

Still, the bishops have carried out their tasks faithfully, and no one has questioned their validity until now, Bishop Borecky said in his letter to the pope.

Bishop Borecky's secretary, Father Serge Kelleher, said the suspensions would cause great difficulty for the church in Western Canada. The church has sufficient celibate clergy to serve parishes in Toronto, but most Ukrainian Catholic dioceses in Western Canada face a severe shortage of priests.


One should approach the Byzantine rites as a learning experience, to fill out ones understanding of the universal church.  But reserve for a long time any decision to change rites.

The older people from the well established parishes are on the whole sounder living Catholics than one can find in most novus parishes, which should be no surprise.  Their glory of course is the Divine Liturgy, even in its present revised state.  The language used and the impact of other changes varies widely between the different eastern rites, and also parish to parish.

To speak broadly, one basically finds 2 sorts of newcomers filling out the ranks:  (1) Latin Catholics who have reached the ends of their ropes in Novus parishes; (2) converts from Protestant evangelical churches who are looking for something more.  Of the former, most on this site will be well acquainted with them.  Of the latter many are wonderful, but you also find those Protestants who avoid the Latin rite because of old prejudices, especially regarding the Pope and the well-defined state of Western doctrine.  Technically neither of these are supposed to be issues with eastern rite Catholics, but in practice they are.  Such newcomers often raise up shrill cries about "Latinizing" (an old eastern canard), and prove to have a lot of baggage they have not shed.

I ended up at a wonderful, welcoming Eastern rite parish about 7 years ago, as one of the ranks of group 1, after significant troubles at the indult parish my wife and I had been attending.  I cannot go into these troubles as much as I would like to, but suffice it to say they are what you can expect when an indult group is merged into an old novus ordo parish.  The Byzantine venue was a great period of relief and prayer for which I am grateful.  We considered ourselves guests (I did not change rites) and attempted to behave accordingly and fully support them (certainly nothing to feel "wrong" about, in present extraordinary circumstances--for the Catholic way is "where there is water, drink.") 

We still go there from time to time.  The Byzantine priest at the time asked me to be adult catechetical director, which I did for three years.  I eventually got immensely tired of made up controversies of east vs. west, gossip about Latinizing, open mockery of the Vatican and the college of cardinals, blasphemous jokes about transubstantiation, and vast doctrinal ignorance of an essentially good people who, unfortunately, have nil formal schooling in doctrine.  Imagine the Carpathia, the rescue ship of the Titanic, where all the survivors (mere passengers, no officers of rank) loudly blame each other and each others' friends, and generations of each others' families, for the sinking.

Also, while I have great respect for certain aspects of Orthodoxy, some of its worst aspects invisibly flow into some of these these eastern Catholic parishes.  Some of the errors will make your hair stand on end.

One day it all came to a head on "Saint Gregory Palamos Sunday."  Look up Saint Gregory Palamos on your roster of approved saints . . . .

Yet one must be mindful of the present long state of schism, brokenness, and be charitable about its effects.  I confess that it is easier now to entertain such thoughts from a distance.  Upshot:  my wife and I love the eastern rite Catholics in America, pray for our friends there (most who remain friends) and thank them for their shelter in a bad time. 

(07-23-2009, 12:04 PM)catholicschoolmom Wrote: [ -> ]On a related note about Byzantine vs. Roman ,  I was baptized and confirmed in the Byzantine rite, which are both done as an infant... however, when I got married, we were married in a Roman rite church (NO, but nothing crazy, happy/clappy).   Before we were married and met with the priest, he said there was "paperwork" that had to be sent to the Bishop and made me sign some kind of papers saying that I was being released from the Byzantine church and was now a member of the Roman rite and had to promise to raise my kids Roman Catholic.  At the time, a million years ago, it didn't matter to me, but now that almost all the NO churches around us are over the top with Charismatic, Life Teen, etc., I am also interested in going back to Byzantine... But now I am wondering.... what am I??  Would I have to switch back again?  What about my kids??  I am guessing that Catholic is Catholic, but in the back of my mind, I'm starting to question whether I did something 'bad' or not.

Since almost everyone on Fish Eaters is so unbelievably knowledgeable about all the rules/regs regarding the church, I figure someone out there can answer.  THANKS

You didn't do anything bad or wrong.

As for your other questions....  When you were baptized and chrismated (confirmed) you became a Catholic in one of the Eastern church sui iurises.  Most westerners are in the Latin church sui iuris.  All are under the pope.  When you married, since you married a Latin catholic you assumed your husband's rite.  Hence the paperwork... The same is true with your children.  They follow the father's rite.  Even though you and your family are Latin rite catholics you can all still attend Byzantine parishes, participate and contribute financially to that community with no pain of sin or scruples. Catholic is Catholic as you say.  The only thing that happened when you changed rites is that you became subject to a different body of canon law is all.  For example, you are not bound to follow the eastern fasting rules (even though you can if you want to) only the western ones.
(07-23-2009, 12:04 PM)catholicschoolmom Wrote: [ -> ]On a related note about Byzantine vs. Roman ,  I was baptized and confirmed in the Byzantine rite, which are both done as an infant... however, when I got married, we were married in a Roman rite church (NO, but nothing crazy, happy/clappy).   Before we were married and met with the priest, he said there was "paperwork" that had to be sent to the Bishop and made me sign some kind of papers saying that I was being released from the Byzantine church and was now a member of the Roman rite and had to promise to raise my kids Roman Catholic.  At the time, a million years ago, it didn't matter to me, but now that almost all the NO churches around us are over the top with Charismatic, Life Teen, etc., I am also interested in going back to Byzantine... But now I am wondering.... what am I??  Would I have to switch back again?  What about my kids??  I am guessing that Catholic is Catholic, but in the back of my mind, I'm starting to question whether I did something 'bad' or not.

Since almost everyone on Fish Eaters is so unbelievably knowledgeable about all the rules/regs regarding the church, I figure someone out there can answer.  THANKS

There was no reason to change rites when you got married, and the priest had no business even asking if you wanted to do so.  Any Catholic can marry any other Catholic of any rite, and the wedding usually takes place in the rite of the groom.  The children generally belong to the rite of the father unless the parents agree otherwise. 
Byzantine Catholic priests are allowed to marry. Only western Catholic priests, can not marry.
(07-25-2009, 11:45 PM)bkovacs Wrote: [ -> ]Byzantine Catholic priests are allowed to marry. Only western Catholic priests, can not marry.

Priest should not marry, only the Eastern Catholic Church is allowed to ordain married men to the priesthood, but not to episcopate, and only in Central Europe. Hungary, Romania, Ukraine, part of Slovakia and Poland. The Holy see explicitly forbade to ordain married men in the West in 1929.
(07-25-2009, 11:45 PM)bkovacs Wrote: [ -> ]Byzantine Catholic priests are allowed to marry. Only western Catholic priests, can not marry.

Priests do not marry in any part of the church.  In the eastern churches, married man can be ordained to the priesthood. 
Pages: 1 2