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I am reading a book called "The Misunderstood Jew" by Amy-Jill Levine, on pg73 she says, "The church father known as Justin Martyr did question whether Jewish women could be saved, since they are not circumcised." She cites the "Dialogue with Trypho 46.3" This is in the chapther titled From Jewish Sect to Gentile Church under the heading A Brief Femimist Excursus.
I haven't finished the Dialogue yet but what I recall St. Justin saying is that circumcision obviously cannot confer righteousness since women can be righteous but cannot be circumcised. Is there any part of the "Dialogue with Trypho" that says something more?
Right now I'm thinking the author is misreading the Dialogue. Sometimes a feminist reading can be helpful but many times feminist-colored glasses see boogeymen that aren't there.Help me here, FIsheaters, I can't continue to read this book if I suspect it's scolarship. Thanks, Kimberly
(08-07-2009, 11:09 AM)kimbaichan Wrote: [ -> ]I am reading a book called "The Misunderstood Jew" by Amy-Jill Levine, on pg73 she says, "The church father known as Justin Martyr did question whether Jewish women could be saved, since they are not circumcised." She cites the "Dialogue with Trypho 46.3" This is in the chapther titled From Jewish Sect to Gentile Church under the heading A Brief Femimist Excursus.
I haven't finished the Dialogue yet but what I recall St. Justin saying is that circumcision obviously cannot confer righteousness since women can be righteous but cannot be circumcised. Is there any part of the "Dialogue with Trypho" that says something more?
Right now I'm thinking the author is misreading the Dialogue. Sometimes a feminist reading can be helpful but many times feminist-colored glasses see boogeymen that aren't there.Help me here, FIsheaters, I can't continue to read this book if I suspect it's scolarship. Thanks, Kimberly

Circum is now baptism, is she saying OT women are not saved....

Sungenis had contact with this Levine woman, she is somewhat Judizer and bigtime Higher Critic (read, Modernist in Catholic lingo) of Bible....
Justin Martyr was not Jewish and was not raised with the teachings of truth.

His view on Judaism is negative, because at that point in time, Judaism was only the Jews who had rather recently denied Christ.

Justin Martyr may have been saying that about Jewish teachings, not Jewish women. His work which attacks the Jews is based on the Midrash, a copy of which no longer exists. Post-Temple Jews wrote and taught crazy things. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if some Jews with authority of that time did believe women could not be saved because of that reason. They do, after all, deny Satan is evil.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/te...rypho.html
Now, as I read it, it says the exact opposite of what Levine claims. St Justin is arguing that if it were just the circumcision that ensured salvation, women would be out of luck. But it isn't the circumcision, but the redemption through the blood of Christ, of which circumcision is a symbol or foreshadowing.
(08-07-2009, 11:49 AM)Anastasia Wrote: [ -> ]http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/te...rypho.html
Now, as I read it, it says the exact opposite of what Levine claims. St Justin is arguing that if it were just the circumcision that ensured salvation, women would be out of luck. But it isn't the circumcision, but the redemption through the blood of Christ, of which circumcision is a symbol or foreshadowing.

You beat me to it.

+1
From her faculty page:
Quote:A self-described "Yankee Jewish feminist who teaches in a predominantly Protestant divinity school in the buckle of the Bible Belt," Levine combines historical-critical rigor, literary-critical sensitivity, and a frequent dash of humor with a commitment to eliminating anti-Jewish, sexist, and homophobic theologies.

I would say something in response, but people are rarely so generous as when they describe themselves, and, as I am in a generous mood, I will allow her own assessment to stand on its own.

It's probably safe reading if one does not read to believe, but rather to dissect and combat falsehoods, but one not armed with knowledge in this area, or of shaky faith, would do well to avoid her.
(08-07-2009, 11:40 AM)Belloc Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-07-2009, 11:09 AM)kimbaichan Wrote: [ -> ]I am reading a book called "The Misunderstood Jew" by Amy-Jill Levine, on pg73 she says, "The church father known as Justin Martyr did question whether Jewish women could be saved, since they are not circumcised." She cites the "Dialogue with Trypho 46.3" This is in the chapther titled From Jewish Sect to Gentile Church under the heading A Brief Femimist Excursus.
I haven't finished the Dialogue yet but what I recall St. Justin saying is that circumcision obviously cannot confer righteousness since women can be righteous but cannot be circumcised. Is there any part of the "Dialogue with Trypho" that says something more?
Right now I'm thinking the author is misreading the Dialogue. Sometimes a feminist reading can be helpful but many times feminist-colored glasses see boogeymen that aren't there.Help me here, FIsheaters, I can't continue to read this book if I suspect it's scolarship. Thanks, Kimberly

Circum is now baptism, is she saying OT women are not saved....

Sungenis had contact with this Levine woman, she is somewhat Judizer and bigtime Higher Critic (read, Modernist in Catholic lingo) of Bible....

Sorry to go off topic, but higher criticism is modernist?  What about Divino Afflante Spiritu?
(08-07-2009, 11:09 AM)kimbaichan Wrote: [ -> ]I am reading a book called "The Misunderstood Jew" by Amy-Jill Levine, on pg73 she says, "The church father known as Justin Martyr did question whether Jewish women could be saved, since they are not circumcised." She cites the "Dialogue with Trypho 46.3" This is in the chapther titled From Jewish Sect to Gentile Church under the heading A Brief Femimist Excursus.
I haven't finished the Dialogue yet but what I recall St. Justin saying is that circumcision obviously cannot confer righteousness since women can be righteous but cannot be circumcised. Is there any part of the "Dialogue with Trypho" that says something more?
Right now I'm thinking the author is misreading the Dialogue. Sometimes a feminist reading can be helpful but many times feminist-colored glasses see boogeymen that aren't there.Help me here, FIsheaters, I can't continue to read this book if I suspect it's scolarship. Thanks, Kimberly

Page down to Chater 46

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/01283.htm

St Justin refutes Tripho who claims that the Sabbath, Circumcision, Sabbath law, washing laws, intercourse laws would represent absolute necessity for salvation.

Thank you for your responses and the links, I appreciate the help. --KC
We're well past due for a thread on circumcision. I'm surprised this hasn't spiraled into a discussion on the modern-day American practice. Those are always entertaining.  :laughing: