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  From time to time we will post, if God Wills, a circular letter for the Third Order of Penance and those who are interested in the Franciscan spirituality.  Anything in it you may find deficient comes from me, anything good from the good God! 

  If anyone feels they may have a vocation to this Order, they may feel free to contact us at the email address from our blog site.  I will post some older circulars in the coming weeks, all of which were written when we were still with the SSPX and were approved by a Society priest.

  God give you peace!

This Circular was done for the month of August of Our Lady's Immaculate Conception.

http://infundelumencordibus.blogspot.com/
Hi Brother Pio Francis, Good to see you.  I am confused.  Are you NOT still with the SSPX?

God bless you!
(09-03-2009, 06:32 PM)SLCFranciscan Wrote: [ -> ]Hi Brother Pio Francis, Good to see you.   I am confused.  Are you NOT still with the SSPX?

No, on the old blog, it was declared he had left the Church. http://thetraditionalthirdorderofstfranc...ation.html

(09-03-2009, 06:34 PM)Rosarium Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-03-2009, 06:32 PM)SLCFranciscan Wrote: [ -> ]Hi Brother Pio Francis, Good to see you.   I am confused.  Are you NOT still with the SSPX?

No, on the old blog, it was declared he had left the Church. http://thetraditionalthirdorderofstfranc...ation.html

This is very sad.  I will keep him in my prayers. :pray2:
Why does a third order of a Religious congregation operate a blog? Why are they sharing their circular letters with the public? On whose authority are they allowed to publish such material?
(09-04-2009, 12:32 AM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: [ -> ]Why does a third order of a Religious congregation operate a blog? Why are they sharing their circular letters with the public? On whose authority are they allowed to publish such material?

Thank you for asking.

The circulars are written for the glory of God, and hopefully will promote the Third Order of St. Francis and gain vocations into this Order.  The circular which was posted on this thread was approved by a priest of the Society.  The permission to publish them was approved by the Capuchins in Morgon and the SSPX priest who was the director of our fraternity.

Now, the circulars which have been written and the one which you see on this site have been approved.  You will find the signature of the priest and my own on these. (See left side of blog for past circulars) 

http://thetraditionalthirdorderofstfranc...gspot.com/

In the future, anything which is written as an official circular letter for the Order of Penance will hopefully always have the approval of a traditional Catholic priest.  This has always been the case.

Pax tecum.
(09-06-2009, 11:34 AM)Br. Pio-Francis T.O.S.F. Wrote: [ -> ]Now, the circulars which have been written and the one which you see on this site have been approved.  You will find the signature of the priest and my own on these. (See left side of blog for past circulars) 

In the future, anything which is written as an official circular letter for the Order of Penance will hopefully always have the approval of a traditional Catholic priest.  This has always been the case.

Pax tecum.

Perhaps you should wait until you have a priest before publishing more?

Past permission does not mean it applies forever. You can't use the authority of a priest whom you have left.

You can't pick and choose such things. The hierarchy of the Church can't be superseded by personal conviction.
My dear Seraphic Brother,

I am also a Franciscan Tertiary (not sfo).  St. Francis was radically obedient to the Holy Father. It is for us to also be obedient and in union with him.  Yes, we are Third Order Penitents and by our prayers and penances, may we pray for a greater unity in the Church under the direction of our Holy Father, Pope Benedict XVI,

Ave Maria!
(09-06-2009, 11:38 AM)Rosarium Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-06-2009, 11:34 AM)Br. Pio-Francis T.O.S.F. Wrote: [ -> ]Now, the circulars which have been written and the one which you see on this site have been approved.  You will find the signature of the priest and my own on these. (See left side of blog for past circulars) 

In the future, anything which is written as an official circular letter for the Order of Penance will hopefully always have the approval of a traditional Catholic priest.  This has always been the case.

Pax tecum.

Perhaps you should wait until you have a priest before publishing more?

Past permission does not mean it applies forever. You can't use the authority of a priest whom you have left.

You can't pick and choose such things. The hierarchy of the Church can't be superseded by personal conviction.

Furthermore, the SSPX does not possess the authority to set up any religious congregation or even tertiaries outside of their own statues. Unless the Church allows people to join as an oblate or tertiary by asking permission of a secular parish priest, then one cannot simply get approval from an SSPX priest and think one is really a member of this group, even if there is a religious ceremony. There are procedures and rules for a reason. Necessity allows us to break some rules because they are hindrances to the spirit of the law, but not to throw out the rule entirely. Necessity and the crisis situation permits some things, but not the all-out substitution of episcopal authority simply because we don't want to appeal to the bishop or we think he won't approve our group.

From what I understand of your group, or at least what was advertised, it does not seem that your tertiary group is attached to the Capuchins in France. Even if they do, it is questionable if they have the standing to begin tertiary groups.

I say that as a loyal SSPX employee and supporter, but also as someone who detests the attitude that some SSPX priests and many faithful attached to the SSPX have that disregards all procedure and authority, not because that authority is preventing what we need to survive, but because that authority is inconvenient.

The local Ordinary is the Ordinary. In so far as it is possible to appeal to him for jurisdiction and support, we are obliged to do so. We have no standing to simply disregard his real authority over us when that authority is used justly.

The question is always one of authority -- like in Apologetics. The easiest way to demonstrate the falsity of Protestant religions is to ask them: From whence to you get the authority?

The question is much broader than this though. We ask this of priests, when they offer the sacraments. The Pastor must ensure that any priest offering sacraments in his parish has the proper authority to do so, which is found in his paperwork, showing his date of ordination, ordaining bishop, and his Ordinary's delegation. We ask this of anyone who writes or speaks, claiming to have expertise or authority. We ask this of those who seek to command us in anything: From whence do you get your authority?

As a teacher, I can appeal to my years of experience in certain subjects and to my credentials (aka. degrees). I can appeal to my over 20 years of musical training and my nearly 10 years of choral directing and even more years of study in Sacred Music and the Liturgy when I speak on the topic of Sacred Music and the Liturgy. I can speak with expertise on the subjects I teach in school due to my degrees, which certify that I have attended and satisfactorily passed certain classes.

A catechism teacher is given the authority to teach parishoners by the parish priest, so the authority to teach comes from the priest.

A priest can offer the sacraments because he has certain authority given by the bishop or the Church. He can show from where he gets this.

A bishop is ordained and given jurisdiction from the Pope, who gets his jurisdiction from the successive line of Pope leading back to the Apostles, who got that authority from Christ.

So, when I ask you, from where does your authority come such that you can publish letters speaking on behalf of a group, or offering religious instruction, and the response is that an SSPX approved each letter, this answers nothing.

You must return to the authority. On whose authority is the group founded? On whose authority have you been given approbation to write religious and other instruction? On whose authority have you been allowed to disseminate this beyond the group in question and to the general public?

Those are the pertinent questions. Given your very legalistic concerns regarding your Papal thesis -- that the authority ended at a certain time, so certain people are illegitimate -- I would think that you can appreciate that we ask you you about authority and from where you get that authority and whether you and your actions can be considered legitimate.
The Third Order was established by the Capuchins in France.  They delegated the power to the SSPX priest in our chapel to hear professions and clothe novices.

It is precisely this problem with authority that we face isn't it.  If we are to profess to be in atrue union with a true Pope and his bishops, we cannot reject his liturgy, sift through his encyclicals deciding what we will accept as Catholic or not.  This is the problem, I do not believe that we can do that.  If he is the Pope we must obey,  we must be united to the bishops under him and actually behave as they exist, we do not decide what we assent to in a true Pope's teaching etc...  We obey, we submit.

But this is another sedevacantist arguement that I will once again shut up and bow out of due to the rules here.  This post will definitely go in the direction of an avenue that will lead me into explaining the thesis I believe to be true and I may be the one to get tossed. 
So, silencio for me. Again.

Leo XIII on Laymen Teaching Wrote This:
"No one, however, must entertain the notion that private individuals are prevented from taking some active part in this duty of teaching, especially those on whom God has bestowed gifts of mind with the strong wish of rendering themselves useful. These, so often as circumstances demand, may take upon themselves, not, indeed, the office of the pastor, but the task of communicating to others what they have themselves received, becoming, as it were, living echoes of their masters in the faith. Such co-operation on the part of the laity has seemed to the Fathers of the Vatican Council so opportune and fruitful of good that they thought well to invite it. "All faithful Christians, but those chiefly who are in a prominent position, or engaged in teaching, we entreat, by the compassion of Jesus Christ, and enjoin by the authority of the same God and Saviour, that they bring aid to ward off and eliminate these errors from holy Church, and contribute their zealous help in spreading abroad the light of undefiled faith." Let each one, therefore, bear in mind that he both can and should, so far as may be, preach the Catholic faith by the authority of his example, and by open and constant profession of the obligations it imposes. In respect, consequently, to the duties that bind us to God and the Church, it should be borne earnestly in mind that in propagating Christian truth and warding off errors the zeal of the laity should, as far as possible, be brought actively into play."

Quote From:
http://sedevacantist.com/laymen.html
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