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Full Version: When did Vatican II become dogma?
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devotedknuckles Wrote:The point of this chat is whether mohamadans worship the triune God! The true God! The only God!! And has been demonstrated they do not because mohamadanism was founded by the devil with his lies. The devil is the father of lies, mohamadanism is a lie hence thy do not worship the truth.
So were Lutheranism, Anglicanism. the Eastern Schism, Pentecostalism, Calvinism etc, etc. So do Lutherans, Anglicans, etc, etc, etc, etc not worship the triune God, but rather the devil?
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I think you are getting carried away a bit DK. Satanists worship the devil. Pagans worship false gods which may be demons but are probably just nothing (idols). Infidels worship God but with critical elements of revelation denied. Heretics are catholics who have denied or rejected  pertinaciously a revealed teaching of the church. Schismatics are catholics who have for one reason or another broken off from the main body of the church to found their own new religion. Apostates are catholics who have through negligence or rebellion ceased to practice their religion and have left the church.

This is not rocket science and it clearly highlights that Muslims are infidels. They have always been considered Infidels since the day they appeared on the scene. It is the tit for tat reason that they regard us as infidels. So we see here a scale of rejection of the true God. The worst extreme is the rejection of God entirely and the deliberate worship of the devil. Rejection of some important revelation about God does not make someone a Satanist.

In this list we see that there is a scale of truth which is different for each religion and group. Some religions reject God entirely whereas other religions reject only points of revelation of the truth and are mostly true. V2 seeks to highlight the good things which do exist in those religions in the hope that this hand of friendship may cause a turning of men's heart to God and to the catholic faith. If we were to deny any human good in any of those other religions then we would be denying God himself because all things which are good emanate from God and as V2 coorectly states, the primary conduit for that good is the catholic church.

As God promised to Abraham. "Through your seed, all nations of the earth will be blessed"
V2 identifies these goods and blessings and correctly shows that these come from the church. This is where the term subsists comes from. The church proper is the core of perfect goodness, but the elements of goodness which exist in all of these other religions rightfully belong to the church. Its like the Roman empire in a way. Rome is in Italy but vestiges of her power and glory emanate out into the entire world even to those far flung lands which do not completely yield to the emporer.
petrelton Wrote:If we were to deny any human good in any of those other religions then we would be denying God himself because all things which are good emanate from God and as V2 coorectly states, the primary conduit for that good is the catholic church.
That is utterly ridiculous. To deny NATURAL good or virtues to human persons in false religions is one thing, but even say that there is human good in that which is properly false aka all the non-Catholic religions is just heresy. What is proper to false religions is their evil errors.
Quote:As God promised to Abraham. "Through your seed, all nations of the earth will be blessed"
That is a prophecy concerning our Lord.
Quote:V2 identifies these goods and blessings and correctly shows that these come from the church. This is where the term subsists comes from.
Woe, now not even I would go that far. In that statement Vatican Council II was not even considering religious societies that do not even have the Sacrament of Baptism.
petrelton i think you've arrived at a somewhat skewed conclusion there. there is no salvation outside the Faith. thus whatever is outside of the Faith is bereft of efficacy. therefore whatever is bereft of efficacy must either be neutral or inherently evil. in the given context of Heavenly and hellacious influence there can be no substantial neutralism. therefore whatever is bereft of efficacy and must be either neutral or inherently evil cannot be neutral. therefore whatever is bereft of efficacy must be inherently evil. as all good (and you yourself stated this) traces ultimately back to God, the source of all good, so too does all evil trace back to satan, the source of all evil.
now, islam is outside the Faith. therefore being bereft of efficacy, inherently evil, and tracing ultimately back to the devil, the god of islam MUST be the devil.
(09-26-2009, 09:04 PM)GodFirst Wrote: [ -> ]
petrelton Wrote:If we were to deny any human good in any of those other religions then we would be denying God himself because all things which are good emanate from God and as V2 coorectly states, the primary conduit for that good is the catholic church.

That is utterly ridiculous. To deny NATURAL good or virtues to human persons in false religions is one thing, but even say that there is human good in that which is properly false aka all the non-Catholic religions is just heresy. What is proper to false religions is their evil errors.

"... God, who desires to call all peoples to himself in Christ and to communicate to them the fullness of his revelation and love, “does not fail to make himself present in many ways, not only to individuals, but also to entire peoples through their spiritual riches, of which their religions are the main and essential expression even when they contain ‘gaps, insufficiencies and errors'”. Therefore, the sacred books of other religions, which in actual fact direct and nourish the existence of their followers, receive from the mystery of Christ the elements of goodness and grace which they contain." ~ Declaration "DOMINUS IESUS" on the Unicity and Salvific Universality of Jesus Christ and the Church

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congre...us_en.html
even the books of false religions who DENY the HOLY TRINITY and DENY the INCARNATION and DENY the RESURRECTION of CHRIST.
i see, OH I SEEEEE
sipus et sipsus et

(09-26-2009, 09:27 PM)Arun Wrote: [ -> ]petrelton i think you've arrived at a somewhat skewed conclusion there. there is no salvation outside the Faith. thus whatever is outside of the Faith is bereft of efficacy. therefore whatever is bereft of efficacy must either be neutral or inherently evil. in the given context of Heavenly and hellacious influence there can be no substantial neutralism. therefore whatever is bereft of efficacy and must be either neutral or inherently evil cannot be neutral. therefore whatever is bereft of efficacy must be inherently evil. as all good (and you yourself stated this) traces ultimately back to God, the source of all good, so too does all evil trace back to satan, the source of all evil.
now, islam is outside the Faith. therefore being bereft of efficacy, inherently evil, and tracing ultimately back to the devil, the god of islam MUST be the devil.
I think you have come to a somewhat skewed conclusion as to what I said in my post.
Please demonstrate where I concluded that there is salvation outside the Faith? All I said was that there were some goods and revelations which are proper to the church which exist in other christian faiths and even in infidel faiths such as Islam. How does Islam know for example about the birth of Jesus to a virgin except by the Catholic church? Where also did I deny that the twisting of those other religions to deny aspects of revealed truth was not attributable to the devil?
Mohamed...the original L. Ron Hubbard....(that says it all...a made up religion with a made up god)

The solution to all your housing problems can be found on page  32

"9.5":    So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, ...

LOL...free housing


From their own book of evil...proof that they do not worship the same Gos as we.

"2.120":    And the Jews will not be pleased with you, nor the Christians until you follow their religion. Say: Surely Allah's guidance, that is the (true) guidance. And if you follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, you shall have no guardian from Allah, nor any helper.


Certainly we know that if they did worshipt the True God then their book would have no such foolishness...here the devil lets them know that if they go to Christ he will not be pleased with them

And before  The moham says

"2.113":    And the Jews say: The Christians do not follow anything (good) and the Christians say: The Jews do not follow anything (good) while they recite the (same) Book. Even thus say those who have no knowledge, like to what they say; so Allah shall judge between them on the day of resurrection in what they differ.


Opps...but don't let that get in your way of a new springtime with the mohams
Seems the NOtards can'tell the boyonets from the grass.
Mohamadanism must be destroyed!!!!!!
Islam delenda est

and islamophiles with it...and as poxpopulisux accused me I will offer myself, wife and childrens on that alter

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