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Full Version: Is it wrong to view going to a NO Mass as Penance?
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(09-29-2009, 03:22 PM)augusztina Wrote: [ -> ]It is not wrong to view the NO Mass as penance.  I am convinced that the NO is chastisement due to the abuse of the TR. 

Where do people come up with this crap....

I find that when I go to NO mass, it is often bad for my soul.  I get no good prayer from it, I see desecration (even today, concelebrating priests tossing around hosts, they end up on the floor). 
Can you do evil that good may come of it?  Are you able to ignore all the bad things during Mass?
And do you think that if the Mass is participation in the Heavenly liturgy, we should be suffering during it?  Should Heaven be a penance?
Well said!!
Sip sip
Something similar to what Scipio wrote about happened in Tivoli, NY, when a priest there decided to say the TLM in St. Sylvia's in August, 2008, and continues to say it to this day in spite of what happened.

The woman in charge of religious education, who has no use for orthodoxy in the NOM (she's in favor of womyn priests and all) much less the TLM, sent a whole bunch of e-mails behind this priest's back, viciously attacking him and getting a bunch of people to leave that church, the result of which is now that church is in a financial quandry. If the people she took with her have the same mind set as she does, I say good riddance, but I suspect many of them were told some outright lies about this priest by this modernist shrew.
(09-29-2009, 03:12 PM)mike6240 Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-29-2009, 03:01 PM)CollegeCatholic Wrote: [ -> ]More often than not, it seems, at the NO parish, the laity (and by laity, i mean old people involved in the upper-rungs of the parish) control the parish.  They stay there for life, and they are always working on the parish council, in the rectory, etc, etc, and after a few years, they gain the ear of the Bishop (or can make enough racket that the bishop finds it easier to transfer the priest than deal with these idiots). 

That, and unlike the priests, these people stay at the parish for life.  So they become entrenched.

Pitiful.  That's no excuse for the laity telling priests what they may or may not do liturgically.  And it's no excuse for a priest to become a spineless slave to a congregation.  Who went for years to seminary?  Who was ordained?  Who paid thousands of dollars to go to college and seminary and then be told by a bunch of ignorant old ladies how, when, and where to offer Mass?
Totally pitiful.
Agree. Crazy stuff. Sounds like a presbyterian church. The presbyterian ministers usually end up with depression or nervous breakdowns after a few years dealing with church committees.
It's only a penance if it is, as Fulton Sheen put it, "sacrifice with the love of God".  Sacrifice without the love of God is just pain.

The NO is certainly painful if you are opposed to it - but, at least in my case, it wasn't a sacrifice with the love of ANYthing.....used to just make me fume and stew for an hour and spend the rest of the morning angry.  Definitely not spiritually helpful, except for fulfilling my Sunday obligation.
(09-29-2009, 07:34 PM)DesperatelySeeking Wrote: [ -> ]It's only a penance if it is, as Fulton Sheen put it, "sacrifice with the love of God".  Sacrifice without the love of God is just pain.

The NO is certainly painful if you are opposed to it - but, at least in my case, it wasn't a sacrifice with the love of ANYthing.....used to just make me fume and stew for an hour and spend the rest of the morning angry.  Definitely not spiritually helpful, except for fulfilling my Sunday obligation.

I am not oppose to the NO per se, I am oppose to the way it is celebrated in a complete rupture from Tradition. I love Christ in the blessed Sacrament that is my end so if I must endure bad liturgy then I will for his sake. 
If you would like to maintain some contact with your old parish, perhaps you may wish to attend any public celebrations of the Divine Office, or maybe a Rosary group or something. It's less of a headache than going to the average suburban Sunday Mass.

Pray for your bishop and priest.
(09-29-2009, 03:01 PM)CollegeCatholic Wrote: [ -> ]More often than not, it seems, at the NO parish, the laity (and by laity, i mean old people involved in the upper-rungs of the parish) control the parish.  They stay there for life, and they are always working on the parish council, in the rectory, etc, etc, and after a few years, they gain the ear of the Bishop (or can make enough racket that the bishop finds it easier to transfer the priest than deal with these idiots). 

That, and unlike the priests, these people stay at the parish for life.  So they become entrenched.

While I am no patron of the N. O.  I might be tempted to believe that the persons vilified above are the only ones who "care" enough to persevere and do what is necessary to "keep the place going." The real problem is  crackpots and complainers who do nothing - ever - and yet belittle those few who are truly dedicated. Trust me, the same type of characters malign people of goodwill who have attached themselves to independent chapels and try to survive the current crisis of orthodoxy in what passes for "normal parishes."  Petty jealously, calumny, backbiting and the like are diseases that have infected all religious communities. It's sick. It's disgusting. The sad part about it is that the real team players are the ones to be excoriated, trampled, and and driven away while the crazies are left to their own devices. It's a miracle we survive!
(09-29-2009, 02:58 PM)mike6240 Wrote: [ -> ]My question too.  When did "church committees" officially (meaning through canon law) be granted exclusive powers to run parishes liturgically?  Never heard of that one.  Sounds like the priest lost his (see below) more than his authoritiy - if you know what I mean.

Never!

CIC, 1983 Wrote:Can. 532 In all juridical matters, the parish priest acts in the person of the parish, in accordance with the law. He is to ensure that the parish goods are administered in accordance with canon 1281‚1288.

Can. 536 ß1 If, after consulting the council of priests, the diocesan Bishop considers it opportune, a pastoral council is to be established in each parish. In this council, which is presided over by the parish priest, Christ's faithful, together with those who by virtue of their office are engaged in pastoral care in the parish, give their help in fostering pastoral action.


ß2 The pastoral council has only a consultative vote, and it is regulated by the norms laid down by the diocesan Bishop.


Can. 537 In each parish there is to be a finance committee to help the parish priest in the administration of the goods of the parish, without prejudice to can. 532. It is ruled by the universal law and by the norms laid down by the diocesan Bishop, and it is comprised of members of the faithful selected according to these norms.

In other words, any 'councils', 'committees', etc. are simply advisory bodies. The PP is the ruler of his parish under Canon Law, but many of them unfortunately abdicate their resposibility to the laity in violation of the law.

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