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(10-06-2009, 05:16 AM)Arun Wrote: [ -> ]wasn't the NO devised by Thomas Cranmer during the English reformation?

There's about a 400-year gap between Cranmer and the Council.
(10-06-2009, 05:16 AM)Arun Wrote: [ -> ]wasn't the NO devised by Thomas Cranmer during the English reformation?

There are just many similarities between the Novus Ordo Missae and a service of Cranmer's from around 1550. Many, many similarities.
(10-01-2009, 01:12 PM)nsper7 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-01-2009, 01:09 PM)franklinf Wrote: [ -> ]What's so hard to get? Why would you attend a Mass whose priests preach heresy vs a truly Catholic one? It's not a hard choice to make...assuming you are Catholic.

Sadly, heterodox views are sometimes preached even at a valid and licit Catholic Mass (I got to an OF/NO parish that is valid and licit, but some of the Priests may hold heterodox views), but one does not go to Mass so much to hear the Priest's homily as to receive the Sacrament. Both and SSPX and Orthodox Eucharist would be equally valid, but illicit, I believe.

I've even heard hetrodox view at TLMs (non-SSPX) and SV views preached (a few years back admittedly) at SSPX chapels.  You pays your money.....

A priest last Sunday in a TLM (non-SSPX) made a statement that heavily implied that being cremated was a respectable choice for a Catholic.  Other people commented on it too so it was not me reading something into it that was not there.  I just try to find the best practical choice for my family and stick with it until it become unbearable.

The Orthodox have their problems too.  Not least that the Metropolitan of Moscow makes millions every year from the sale of Vodka and the whole hierarchy there are heavily tied up with the organised crime families who run Moscow.  Yesterday's criminal is tomorrow's statesman, overlord or King.

Roll on the Chastisement when God's anger and his will, will all become abundently clear.

All I know about the New Mass is that I've tried it and I don't like it.  Same with the Novus Ordo Establishment and their religion/faith call it what you want.  It is, what it is but it is not what my Grandad believed in, it contradicts it in multiple important places and it makes absolutely no sense to me.  If God wants me to be Novus Ordo, then I'll simply have to go to Hell like all the other people.  No wait, Hell has been cancelled too now, so I'm alright.
(10-06-2009, 06:11 AM)ggreg Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-01-2009, 01:12 PM)nsper7 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-01-2009, 01:09 PM)franklinf Wrote: [ -> ]What's so hard to get? Why would you attend a Mass whose priests preach heresy vs a truly Catholic one? It's not a hard choice to make...assuming you are Catholic.

Sadly, heterodox views are sometimes preached even at a valid and licit Catholic Mass (I got to an OF/NO parish that is valid and licit, but some of the Priests may hold heterodox views), but one does not go to Mass so much to hear the Priest's homily as to receive the Sacrament. Both and SSPX and Orthodox Eucharist would be equally valid, but illicit, I believe.

I've even heard hetrodox view at TLMs (non-SSPX) and SV views preached (a few years back admittedly) at SSPX chapels.  You pays your money.....

A priest last Sunday in a TLM (non-SSPX) made a statement that heavily implied that being cremated was a respectable choice for a Catholic.  Other people commented on it too so it was not me reading something into it that was not there.  I just try to find the best practical choice for my family and stick with it until it become unbearable.

The Orthodox have their problems too.  Not least that the Metropolitan of Moscow makes millions every year from the sale of Vodka and the whole hierarchy there are heavily tied up with the organised crime families who run Moscow.  Yesterday's criminal is tomorrow's statesman, overlord or King.

Roll on the Chastisement when God's anger and his will, will all become abundently clear.

All I know about the New Mass is that I've tried it and I don't like it.  Same with the Novus Ordo Establishment and their religion/faith call it what you want.  It is, what it is but it is not what my Grandad believed in, it contradicts it in multiple important places and it makes absolutely no sense to me.  If God wants me to be Novus Ordo, then I'll simply have to go to Hell like all the other people.  No wait, Hell has been cancelled too now, so I'm alright.

No one here is saying you have to like the Novus Ordo, you do however have to accept it as a rite of the Church. Cremation is a valid option under todays canon law, and cremation is sometimes a necessity in situations like a battlefield.
NO...we do not have to accept it...that's the point.  Fight.  and ignore the NO.
And I'm very sick of people (on this forum in particular) making a particular point of calling the NO the Ordinary Form.  Call it what you like, it's still the New Mass.  Rome can call it the OF if they want to, in order to mitigate the impact of the newly-reinstated TLM, but come on, people!  A rose by any other name is still a rose.  Conversely, you can call a skunk a flower if you like (a la Bambi) but it still stinks!
(10-06-2009, 11:22 AM)sheep101 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-06-2009, 06:11 AM)ggreg Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-01-2009, 01:12 PM)nsper7 Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-01-2009, 01:09 PM)franklinf Wrote: [ -> ]What's so hard to get? Why would you attend a Mass whose priests preach heresy vs a truly Catholic one? It's not a hard choice to make...assuming you are Catholic.

Sadly, heterodox views are sometimes preached even at a valid and licit Catholic Mass (I got to an OF/NO parish that is valid and licit, but some of the Priests may hold heterodox views), but one does not go to Mass so much to hear the Priest's homily as to receive the Sacrament. Both and SSPX and Orthodox Eucharist would be equally valid, but illicit, I believe.

I've even heard hetrodox view at TLMs (non-SSPX) and SV views preached (a few years back admittedly) at SSPX chapels.  You pays your money.....

A priest last Sunday in a TLM (non-SSPX) made a statement that heavily implied that being cremated was a respectable choice for a Catholic.  Other people commented on it too so it was not me reading something into it that was not there.  I just try to find the best practical choice for my family and stick with it until it become unbearable.

The Orthodox have their problems too.  Not least that the Metropolitan of Moscow makes millions every year from the sale of Vodka and the whole hierarchy there are heavily tied up with the organised crime families who run Moscow.  Yesterday's criminal is tomorrow's statesman, overlord or King.

Roll on the Chastisement when God's anger and his will, will all become abundently clear.

All I know about the New Mass is that I've tried it and I don't like it.  Same with the Novus Ordo Establishment and their religion/faith call it what you want.  It is, what it is but it is not what my Grandad believed in, it contradicts it in multiple important places and it makes absolutely no sense to me.  If God wants me to be Novus Ordo, then I'll simply have to go to Hell like all the other people.  No wait, Hell has been cancelled too now, so I'm alright.

No one here is saying you have to like the Novus Ordo, you do however have to accept it as a rite of the Church. Cremation is a valid option under todays canon law, and cremation is sometimes a necessity in situations like a battlefield.

Agreed. And it works the other way too. There are a probably lot of "progressive" (ick) Catholics who do not like the TLM and view it as old-fashioned or whatnot, but they still have to accept it as a valid Form of the Roman Rite.

Quote:NO...we do not have to accept it...that's the point.   Fight.   and ignore the NO.

I have to respectfully disagree. What we don't have to accept--what we must fight--is liturgical abuse and heterodox-spouting Priets and members of the hierarchy. I think they are the real threat to the Church, not the NO. Even if we discontinued the use of the Novus Order tomorrow (just as the use of the Sarum Rite was discontinued for the most part after Trent), we would still have the problem of Priests who seek to "innovate" the Mass (they did it to the NO, why not the TLM as well once they have to celebrate that Form?) and hold and propagate heterodox views. How would not that change under a TLM-only Church versus our current idea where we have both the NO (as the OF) and TLM (as the EF) existing and celebrated side-by-side at various parishes by different clergy?

Quote:And I'm very sick of people (on this forum in particular) making a particular point of calling the NO the Ordinary Form.  Call it what you like, it's still the New Mass.  Rome can call it the OF if they want to, in order to mitigate the impact of the newly-reinstated TLM, but come on, people!  A rose by any other name is still a rose.  Conversely, you can call a skunk a flower if you like (a la Bambi) but it still stinks!-

The Novus Ordo Missae is the current Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite. The Tridentine Latin Mass is the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite. Personally, I would ditch these designators because it can make it look like the TLM/EF should be celebrated less often than the NO/OF even though the universal indult grants Priests the right to celebrate the EF has often as they wish.

Personally, I would find better designators so that both the NO and TLM are viewed Ordinary Forms of the Roman Rite. I would like to see a more widespread use of the Tridentine Latin Mass, perhaps with a requirement that, in each Diocese and religious order, a certain percentage of Priests must be able and willing to celebrate the TLM.
(10-06-2009, 03:05 PM)IrishCowboy Wrote: [ -> ]And I'm very sick of people (on this forum in particular) making a particular point of calling the NO the Ordinary Form.  Call it what you like, it's still the New Mass.  Rome can call it the OF if they want to, in order to mitigate the impact of the newly-reinstated TLM, but come on, people!  A rose by any other name is still a rose.  Conversely, you can call a skunk a flower if you like (a la Bambi) but it still stinks!

I'm not sure every poster is making a particular point in their choice of nominclature.  I have used Novus Ordo and Ordinary Form interchangeable on this form, never with a particular reason, or point.  I've assumed that when I've used either of those phrases the reader will know that I'm meaning the liturgy most commonly celebrated in the Roman Catholic at this time, rather that the TLM.  I have received personal comments from readers here objecting to my use of either phrase :shrug:  If there were a third term that I might use, I'd probable still receive abusive comments, some insisting that I say Novus Ordo and others that I say Ordinary Form.  For clarification, I personally consider the term Novus Ordo   to be descriptive rather than derogatory, and I use it simply to distinguish the liturgy most commonly celebrated in the Roman Catholic at this time from the TLM, and not as being descriptive of any other position, condition, or school of theology in the Church.  The term  Ordinary Form is the one the Vicar of Christ uses, and that's good enough for me also.
And the N.O. being constructed by the Freemason Bugnini,.................on the Concilium.......................yeaaaaaahh..... :pazzo:
(10-06-2009, 03:05 PM)IrishCowboy Wrote: [ -> ]And I'm very sick of people (on this forum in particular) making a particular point of calling the NO the Ordinary Form.  Call it what you like, it's still the New Mass.  Rome can call it the OF if they want to, in order to mitigate the impact of the newly-reinstated TLM, but come on, people!  A rose by any other name is still a rose.  Conversely, you can call a skunk a flower if you like (a la Bambi) but it still stinks!

We are not angels, so the words are not mere terms pointing to objects, the worlds hold emotional content too.

The NO mass attaches negative content, some kind of denial to the valid and very valuable sacrifice of Jesus Christ, and thus indirectly to Jesus Christ and his mystical body the living Church militant.

The New Mass or Ordinary form has no such negative content.

The Gospel is clear: you wont be better by denouncing others. And psychologicaly if you trust your stand, you do not need to use negative words, they are always the sign of weakness.
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