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Full Version: Vatican astronomer says if aliens exist, they may not need redemption
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(03-01-2011, 11:36 PM)Incarnatur Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-01-2011, 02:09 PM)Bakuryokuso Wrote: [ -> ]So it would really suck for intelligent aliens who were living in paradise to lose their paradise because of events on earth. Ergo, I don't think there are any aliens.

Unless, at some time in our past, we facilitated the spread of evil in the cosmos.  If so, there was likely a war.

Someone should write a screenplay  :)
(03-01-2011, 11:39 PM)Bakuryokuso Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-01-2011, 11:36 PM)Incarnatur Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-01-2011, 02:09 PM)Bakuryokuso Wrote: [ -> ]So it would really suck for intelligent aliens who were living in paradise to lose their paradise because of events on earth. Ergo, I don't think there are any aliens.

Unless, at some time in our past, we facilitated the spread of evil in the cosmos.  If so, there was likely a war.

Someone should write a screenplay  :)

I wish...
I am an immigration lawyer and have represented aliens for years. I can say with certainty that they exist and that they need redemption.

:owl:
(03-02-2011, 03:50 PM)Incarnatur Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-01-2011, 11:39 PM)Bakuryokuso Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-01-2011, 11:36 PM)Incarnatur Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-01-2011, 02:09 PM)Bakuryokuso Wrote: [ -> ]So it would really suck for intelligent aliens who were living in paradise to lose their paradise because of events on earth. Ergo, I don't think there are any aliens.

Unless, at some time in our past, we facilitated the spread of evil in the cosmos.  If so, there was likely a war.

Someone should write a screenplay  :)

I wish...


...I think L. Ron Hubbard beat you to it...    :laughing:
Even though this Vatican Astronomer must have access to the latest equipment and data, it seems he can't hold a candle to the Magi in the Astronomy Department. But having said that, I'll offer my comments.

Since we are all in exile from our True Home, doesn't that make us all aliens here on planet earth?

So my vote is that, yes, aliens need redemption. And if I can come up with this, I would say it should be basic theology. Something a Vatican Astronomer should know. 

And after this, our exile, show unto us the Blessed Fruit of Thy Womb, Jesus.
(11-13-2009, 12:04 AM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: [ -> ]Aliens are demons. Another tool of Satan to deceive us.

Agreed in part.

Yes, I believe that "aliens," that is the little gray men of the many fanciful hallucination stories, are for the most part demons.  But as for "UFO's," I believe the vast majority of those sitings to be either undercover military craft (belonging to the country reported or spy craft from another country) or simply cosmic or weather phenomena that is mistaken for craft from outer space.  Since the reported incident at Roswell, New Mexico in the 1940's, sitings of UFO's have gone up a thousand fold.  That little tidbit of information seems to establish the theory that people got the idea in their heads that UFO's from outer space were surveying our planet and they wanted to go out and see them for themselves.

As for Roswell, I have my own theory on that subject.  For many years the U.S. and other countries have used Reese monkeys in aviation experiments.  I believe that a craft DID crash near Roswell, but it was an experiment of the U.S. Military and there WERE bodies found at the site - but they were the bodies of Reese monkeys in which the hair was burnt from their bodies, giving them the appearance of "little men" from outer space.

As for the other topic, I believe that there is nothing living "out there" of any significant nature.  I believe that God created humanity exclusively to serve him in the material plane and that earth is the center of the universe.  "Aliens," who are obviously super-intelligent, simply DO NOT fit in with our religion.  Was there an "alien Mary" and an "alien Jesus?"  That would seem highly outrageous to me - if not heretical to hold such a belief.  The common belief today about aliens and life in outer space is derived from the common belief of macro-evolutionism.  Most scientists believe that if life evolved from simple marine organisms on our planet that it can do the same on other planets if only one element is present - and that is water.  This is why they search for planets containing water.

Here is a picture of a Reese monkey.  Notice the eyes, the nose and the small "slit" mouth.  When placed in a little aviation suit and rendered hairless by being slightly to moderately burnt, this would very closely resemble the typcial "gray alien."

[Image: 800px-Rhesus_Macaque_%28Macaca_mulatta%2...G_5792.jpg]
I think God created aliens, nessy, big foot and all that just for a "haha you have no idea how powerful I really am." But Aliens I think were made for a big race between us and them..to like see whos smarter. Okay ima stop now, paranormal geek is coming out.
Did anyone mention a pope's (I think Pope Zachary) who said (or defined infallibly, I forget) that aliens don't exist?
He said something like, if anyone says their are people like us but not descended from Adam, let him be anathema; i.e., it is false to believe there are sentient being besides humans, who aren't spiritual beings (angels and demons)
(03-15-2011, 02:58 AM)randomtradguy Wrote: [ -> ]Did anyone mention a pope's (I think Pope Zachary) who said (or defined infallibly, I forget) that aliens don't exist?
He said something like, if anyone says their are people like us but not descended from Adam, let him be anathema; i.e., it is false to believe there are sentient being besides humans, who aren't spiritual beings (angels and demons)

Based solely on what you posted, that sounds more like he is condemning the idea that humans evolved simultaneously around the globe in several different communities.  I don't think he's anathematizing the possibility of extra-terrestrial life, but rather the idea that not all humans are descended from one original parental pairing.
(03-16-2011, 01:18 AM)Melkite Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-15-2011, 02:58 AM)randomtradguy Wrote: [ -> ]Did anyone mention a pope's (I think Pope Zachary) who said (or defined infallibly, I forget) that aliens don't exist?
He said something like, if anyone says their are people like us but not descended from Adam, let him be anathema; i.e., it is false to believe there are sentient being besides humans, who aren't spiritual beings (angels and demons)

Based solely on what you posted, that sounds more like he is condemning the idea that humans evolved simultaneously around the globe in several different communities.  I don't think he's anathematizing the possibility of extra-terrestrial life, but rather the idea that not all humans are descended from one original parental pairing.

quote from Bonifacius on an earlier thread:

St. Zachary in 752 replied to St. Boniface regarding the teachings of a certain Virgilius, who may or may not be St. Virgilius of Salzburg.  Pope Zachary condemns the notion that there is another "mundus" or "world" housing "other humans" (alii homines).  (I cannot find a Latin text online that I can copy and paste easily at length.)  Virgilius apparently was accused of saying there were men at the antipodes -- i.e. on the opposite side of the earth.  The antipodes were commonly thought to be completely inaccessible.  Hence, any race of men there would not be descended from Adam and Eve.  Hence, these residents of the antipodes would constitute another race of humans not descended from Adam and Eve.  The upshot of Pope Zachary's message:  there are no men not descended from Adam and Eve.  The world of man we know is all there is.  As it turns out there were men at the Antipodes, but the Antipodes were accessible all along.  Hence, we all come from Adam and Eve.

Now, does that mean there are no other non-human rational animals?  At the time of St. Zachary, the Antipodes were regarded practically as we would regard another planet -- completely cut off from our own world.  To deny the existence of humans of another race at the Antipodes is tantamount to denying the existence of another race of intelligent corporeal beings on another planet.  That seems reasonable to me.  Plus, do we not define "human being" as "rational animal"?  If there are intelligent space aliens, why can there not be "alii homines"?  How much like us would these aliens have to be before they fell under Pope Zachary's condemnation?  Where in the 6 days of creation are we to fit these space aliens?  What day of creation were they made?  Did these space aliens also have an Eden somewhere?  Was the Serpent there, too?  Has God given them grace?  If so, have they fallen from it?  If so, has a Person of the Trinity become incarnate there, with another Immaculate Conception?  If they have not fallen from grace, how do they relate to the Incarnation of God on this planet?  The angels worship Christ -- what about these space aliens?

All rubbish.  Once we introduce the notion that there are rational animals other than man, once we think that there are rational animals not descended from Adam and Eve and not redeemed by the New Adam, at whose side stands the New Eve, Christianity goes to pieces.  We learn in the catechism that there are three types of intelligent beings:  God, angels, and men.  Period.  If St. Pio of Pietrelcina said something different, he would be saying something quite, quite novel, which is good reason to suspect he has been misquoted until positive evidence arises that he actually said this.  The burden of proof is always on the person advancing the attribution of the quotation.   
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