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Full Version: Vatican astronomer says if aliens exist, they may not need redemption
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(11-13-2009, 12:04 AM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: [ -> ]Aliens are demons. Another tool of Satan to deceive us.
You say that with incredible confidence.
(11-14-2009, 10:04 AM)anthony Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-13-2009, 12:04 AM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: [ -> ]Aliens are demons. Another tool of Satan to deceive us.
You say that with incredible confidence.

Makes you wonder if he has more evidence of alien life than everyone else.

(11-14-2009, 10:05 AM)Rosarium Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-14-2009, 10:04 AM)anthony Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-13-2009, 12:04 AM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: [ -> ]Aliens are demons. Another tool of Satan to deceive us.
You say that with incredible confidence.

Makes you wonder if he has more evidence of alien life than everyone else.
Just like everything else he posts.  :laughing:

I'm just having fun, Vetus. You're alright.

Bring the old avatar back though. That was just mean.
I just got done reading C.S. Lewis's Space Trilogy, and I think this astronomer has been reading it as well...

Although fictional, Lewis does incorporate aliens into a Christian universe.  The rational life forms of Mars never committed original sin, and thus the three intelligent life forms on the planet never needed redemption.  However, Lewis still considers Earth to be a sort of "nexus point" in the salvation/creation history.  In Perelandra, Lewis says that all subsequent created life forms would be in the form of man, since it was the form that the Word Himself assumed.  Of course, there are no other fallen planets in Lewis's world, but if there were, he still says that God would be able to redeem them.

I don't know if there are aliens, but I think the question that arises from it is interesting, nonetheless.
If this race of beings had not fallen, then how would it be right and fitting for a female from a fallen race to be Queen of the Angels and Mother of the Incarnate God?

Presumeably Angels are higher in the hierarchy of creation than men, in as much as they are unfallen and unfettered by human bodies and all the other limitations of a physical existence, such as death.

Why should Mary get that supreme honour (Queen of the Angels) and not a member of their unfallen race?  Seems a little unjust to me.

Besides, is there as much as the vaguest shred of evidence for any life on any other planet?  Is not ALL of this based on the THEORY of evolution and the fact that there are a heck of a large number of stars in the visible universe.

In that sense I reject the entire thing.  Because I know what lies at the root of it.
(11-16-2009, 08:42 AM)ggreg Wrote: [ -> ]Why should Mary get that supreme honour (Queen of the Angels) and not a member of their unfallen race?  Seems a little unjust to me.

That is exactly what Satan thinks. Why should a lesser being be placed above it? Do you think Satan is just?
If Mary is the only person from a singular race in the entire universe who remained free of sin, and in addition consented of her own free will to become the Mother of Jesus, then I can see why God would make her Queen of Heaven.

If there are unfallen races of millions of other alien beings out there I cannot see why she should get that particular honour.

And in a seemingly infinite universe why would God stop at two ensouled races of beings?  Why not have a race in every single galaxy, of which there are millions.

It's horseshit.  We are alone in the universe, except for God and the Angels and demons.  All the rest is just lighting and special effects.
(11-14-2009, 10:04 AM)anthony Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-13-2009, 12:04 AM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: [ -> ]Aliens are demons. Another tool of Satan to deceive us.
You say that with incredible confidence.

There's no other rational explanation to it.
(11-16-2009, 02:21 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-14-2009, 10:04 AM)anthony Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-13-2009, 12:04 AM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: [ -> ]Aliens are demons. Another tool of Satan to deceive us.
You say that with incredible confidence.

There's no other rational explanation to it.

But you say "aliens are demons", without qualifying what "aliens" are. Are you referring to the popular notion of "alien" life with their saucers, big eyes, anal compulsiveness and grey skin or are you referring to the concept of life on heavenly bodies other than earth? As far as we know, there are no aliens, therefore, you are saying they are a tool of Satan when there is no data concerning them.

We probably won't get more than this out of you, I imagine:
Quote:Aliens are demons. Period.

For the curious, we had a discussion and poll on aliens (popular notion) here: http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/inde...59.75.html
(11-16-2009, 08:42 AM)ggreg Wrote: [ -> ]If this race of beings had not fallen, then how would it be right and fitting for a female from a fallen race to be Queen of the Angels and Mother of the Incarnate God?

Presumeably Angels are higher in the hierarchy of creation than men, in as much as they are unfallen and unfettered by human bodies and all the other limitations of a physical existence, such as death.

Why should Mary get that supreme honour (Queen of the Angels) and not a member of their unfallen race?  Seems a little unjust to me.

Besides, is there as much as the vaguest shred of evidence for any life on any other planet?  Is not ALL of this based on the THEORY of evolution and the fact that there are a heck of a large number of stars in the visible universe.

In that sense I reject the entire thing.  Because I know what lies at the root of it.

Again, I don't really know if aliens exist.  And if alien life did exist, its also possible that there is no other rational life forms in the universe (and then its still us and angels).  However, for the sake of this question, I'm going to assume rational alien life exists.

First, I think you're looking at Mary privileges the wrong way.  Mary is not Queen of Heaven, because she is sinless.  She is Queen of Heaven, because she's the Mother of God (and that's also why she was preserved from sin in the first place).  Secondly, the nature of man was exalted because of the Incarnation.  Since the Word became flesh, we're now at a state infinitely superior to before the Fall.  Thus, in light of the Incarnation, Mary's status as Queen of Heaven makes sense.  She's the Morning Star of the form that the Savior assumed.  Thus, she's higher in the hierarchy of grace than even any unfallen creature (whether they be pure spirit or corporal).

In the Space Trilogy, Lewis specifically addressed where man fits in the hierarchy of rational beings.  In Out of the Silent Planet, the main character travels to Mars and encounters three species of rational creatures (each with a unique form).  Each species is unfallen, and they are regularly in communion with angels and God Himself ("walking with God").  The second book, Perelandra involves the creation of life on Venus.  God recently made rational life on Venus, and he sends the main character from the first book to the planet to try to act as a counter-tempter and prevent the the rational creatures (one species with the form of man) on that planet from falling to the temptation of the devil.  Since these rational creatures were created after our own planet's Fall, they only have the form of man, because it is God's own chosen form.  Thus, man still holds a prominent place in the hierarchy of creation, despite there being other rational creatures.  Its good fiction...
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