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seriously...........so Im not the only on eh?? Thats means im not crazy................. (i can finally tell those voices to shut up)

No no in all honesty, I have a bit of a wild theory about antediluvians and the possibility that some of them escaped the earth............goes down to a huge long theory about how Adam's infused knowledge became subject to memory but was not removed, thus paving the way for an ancient yet advanced society, but not in the way we would recognise advanced, i.e explanation of things like the yonaguni monument, stone spherical boulders found across the globe and all mannerisms of unexplainable ancient feats of technology.

Anyways..................enough from me..................I probably am crazy......  :laughing:
(12-21-2009, 04:51 PM)stormstopper Wrote: [ -> ]You must know that any created beings  would make less-than-perfect choices and inevitably rebel, seeking to be like God. They would be susceptible to the same temptation from Satan that destroyed the human race.

This is heresy.  You are saying that God was incapable of creating a being that would not fall into sin.  Which less than perfect choices did the Theotokos make?  Did she inevitably rebel as well?
   Oh dear!
This is just the sort of stuff that "postVIIvians" like to feast on.
(12-22-2009, 12:30 PM)Melkite Wrote: [ -> ]This is heresy.  You are saying that God was incapable of creating a being that would not fall into sin.  Which less than perfect choices did the Theotokos make?  Did she inevitably rebel as well?

Insane twaddle. God knows everything...now..before....after.
I always thought Mary was capable of sin.  She possessed free will after all.  Her life was exceptional only because she was given an amount of grace far exceeding that received by any other creature.  For successful resistance to temptation is a function of grace, it is a supernatural act.  There is no created nature, unaided by grace, that is capable of resisting temptation.

But this is mysterious.
Happy new year to all on this thread (aliens included) :P

[Image: Calendar2010coverB.jpg]
Thank you!  And the same to you! :)
To me the New Year started in late November............ I got nothing.
(12-31-2009, 11:44 AM)Zakhur Wrote: [ -> ]I always thought Mary was capable of sin.  She possessed free will after all.  Her life was exceptional only because she was given an amount of grace far exceeding that received by any other creature.  For successful resistance to temptation is a function of grace, it is a supernatural act.  There is no created nature, unaided by grace, that is capable of resisting temptation.

But this is mysterious.

Dear me!  I never cease to be amazed at the people on this forum...Of course Our Lady was capable of sin........just as you are capable of murdering your mother.........She just wouldn't do it as I hope you wouldn't countenance any such thing.
I thought I would resurrect this old thread because I never really finished thinking about the topic, and it's really the kind of thing I like to talk about more than most of the other topics in which I have posted in the past year.

Maybe I'm not doing this right, but I'm posting the OP again.

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Quote:VATICAN-ALIENS May-14-2008 (540 words) xxxi

Vatican astronomer says if aliens exist, they may not need redemption

By John Thavis
Catholic News Service

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- If aliens exist, they may be a different life form that does not need Christ's redemption, the Vatican's chief astronomer said.

Jesuit Father Jose Funes, director of the Vatican Observatory, said Christians should consider alien life as an "extraterrestrial brother" and a part of God's creation.

Father Funes, an Argentine named to his position by Pope Benedict XVI in 2006, made the remarks in an interview published May 13 by the Vatican newspaper, L'Osservatore Romano.

Father Funes said it was difficult to exclude the possibility that other intelligent life exists in the universe, and he noted that one field of astronomy is now actively seeking "biomarkers" in spectrum analysis of other stars and planets.

These potential forms of life could include those that have no need of oxygen or hydrogen, he said. Just as God created multiple forms of life on earth, he said, there may be diverse forms throughout the universe.

"This is not in contrast with the faith, because we cannot place limits on the creative freedom of God," he said.

"To use St. Francis' words, if we consider earthly creatures as 'brothers' and 'sisters,' why can't we also speak of an 'extraterrestrial brother?'" he said.

Asked about implications that the discovery of alien life might pose for Christian redemption, Father Funes cited the Gospel parable of the shepherd who left his flock of 99 sheep in order to search for the one that was lost.

"We who belong to the human race could really be that lost sheep, the sinners who need a pastor," he said.

"God became man in Jesus in order to save us. So if there are also other intelligent beings, it's not a given that they need redemption. They might have remained in full friendship with their creator," he said.

Father Funes went on to say that Christ's incarnation and sacrifice was a unique and unrepeatable event. But he said he was sure that, if needed, God's mercy would be offered to aliens, as it was to humans.

On another topic, the priest said he saw no real contradiction between evolutionary science and the Christian faith, as long as evolution does not become an absolute ideology.

"As an astronomer, I can say that from the observation of stars and galaxies there emerges a clear evolutionary process," he said.

He said that in his opinion the big-bang theory remains the best explanation of the origin of the universe from a scientific point of view. Above all, it's a reasonable explanation, he said.

As for the biblical account of creation, Father Funes said it was wrong to expect a scientific explanation from the Bible.

"The Bible is not fundamentally a work of science," he said. "It is a letter of love that God has written to his people, in a language that was used 2,000-3,000 years ago. Obviously, at that time a concept like the big bang was totally extraneous."

He said he was convinced that astronomy was a science that can open people's minds and hearts and bring them closer to God. The idea that astronomy leads to an atheistic view of the universe is a myth, he said.

END

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What does everyone think of these ideas?  If I remember correctly, Aristotle's (or Aquinas's) term for non-animal beings was "significant beings."  If non-human significant beings exist I see several inescapable conclusions.

1.  God tested them like the angels and us.
2.  They're ancestors passed or failed the test.
3.  If they passed, they could be like we would have been.
4.  If they passed, they could be like incarnate angels.
5.  If they failed, they could be exactly like us.
6.  If they failed, they could be like incarnate demons.

(4 and 6 I find unlikely because such beings would be half natural and half spiritual, not completely the latter.)

I have one question too.

What would be the Church's responsibility to them under any of the above conditions?

I'm interested to hear everyone's thinking about this subject.
If they exist and have a civilization of their own, I imagine that each one probably is in a different galaxy, millions of light years away.  If JC hasn't come back in 30 million or so, maybe we'll get to meet the ones in Andromeda when their galaxy crashes into ours.

1.  Maybe they weren't tested, like the animals on earth aren't tested.  In speculative theology, is it possible to have a highly intelligent, non-rational being, capable of building an advanced civilization without the need of conscience?  Ultimately, I suppose they would be what the evolutionists believe we are.

2.  If their ancestors passed, are they still tested individually?  Do some now pass and others fail?  Do the ones who pass shun those who fail, or do they mix and produce offspring who have only partially inherited original sin?
If their ancestors failed, did Jesus' death here count for them, or would he have to die on their planet for them?  If he only died here for us, but did not for them, does that mean he loves them less than us?  He loves all of his creation, but he only became incarnate for us.

I think, ultimately, without new, public revelation, the Church's only responsibility to them would be to offer them conditional baptism if they desired it.
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