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Full Version: A Response to "Conservative" Catholics Concerning the "Traditionalist" Movement
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With the ever rising amount of "conservative" Catholics on this board (and even some liberal ones) who do not fully understand what it means to be a "Traditionalist" (which is a term that some of us do not care for, because we believe that any true Catholic is a Traditionalist by default), I have attached an article that every person claiming Catholicism should read at least once - to better understand the viewpoint of today's "Traditional" Roman Catholics.


http://www.catholicapologetics.info/mode...deftrd.htm
Can't open damn link on bb. Anyway u can post it?
thanks, now I have my Sunday reading  :)
For the most part I think you are right.

There are however some things that I do not find to be accurate.

Your definition of Conservative. "One who upholds and defends the current policies and positions of the Church hierarchy regardless of their novelty."

I would not say that is entirely correct, I would say that they are opposed to those policies as well but they are silent and passive on the matter rather than active, unlike liberals who form committees and action groups which thrive on the presence of weak priests.

Also "Both traditionalists and "conservatives" acknowledge the existence of problems in the Church but disagree as to their nature, extent, causes and remedies."

Yeah we might differ somewhat but not completely. Most who would have read it would acknowledge that the problems became quite clear after VII but would also say that they did not start there.

The one part that you are not getting is that many Trads are viewed with suspicion because they seems to attract a certain element, such as the "Sedes" and the pope Michael types. Let us also remember that SSPX is not exactly loved either consider at best a rogue group and at worst schismatics. I think that their rehabilitation to the Holy See will bring a dramatic change on that attitude.

The fact is that the such Trad Groups need to be in communion with the Church rather than in the fringes in order to bring about positive and much needed change in your average parishioner so they better understand the Church.
(11-22-2009, 09:16 AM)Nic Wrote: [ -> ]With the ever rising amount of "conservative" Catholics on this board (and even some liberal ones) who do not fully understand what it means to be a "Traditionalist" (which is a term that some of us do not care for, because we believe that any true Catholic is a Traditionalist by default), I have attached an article that every person claiming Catholicism should read at least once - to better understand the viewpoint of today's "Traditional" Roman Catholics.


http://www.catholicapologetics.info/mode...deftrd.htm

Good read, Nic.
Not true...to say trads and consevs acknowledge problems makes it sound like they have much in common....we do not.   Conservs see no real prob with V2 and most of what's new...it's just not to their taste...needs to be implemented differently...better

Trads don't think that...to us a conserv and lib cath are the same...they are enemies of the Church and V2 does not need to be implemented better and to our taste...it needs to be eliminated....so let the NOfreaks view us with suspicion...no one who counts cares what they think of SSPX or any sort of sedeprivantist or -vacantist...they should view us with suspicion...because in the long run the NOtards will be out.


And trad groups do not need to be regularized...the Church hierarchy needs to be regularized...it is not the SSPX that will be rehabilitated but rather the Vatican


So there it is...now you know.
Scipio a, AMEN! when i used to go to the new order mass, it was made up of mainly conservatives, and they literally despised anything that they perceived as Traditional. communion in the hand,guitar masses, false ecumenism etc. were all accepted and encouraged! but just the mention of having a Latin Mass said, could bring about their wrath on you. and what is really strange, these people blend their republican/conservative politics into their Catholicism even though their political belief is in opposition to the Kingship of Christ! please, pray for these misguided Catholics they have been blinded by the false religion of Americanism.            great article by Angelus magazine(i forget which issue) titled; why catholics cannot be conservatives. must read for neo-cons!
(11-22-2009, 11:26 AM)Kevin C. Wrote: [ -> ]Scipio a, AMEN! when i used to go to the new order mass, it was made up of mainly conservatives, and they literally despised anything that they perceived as Traditional. communion in the hand,guitar masses, false ecumenism etc. were all accepted and encouraged! but just the mention of having a Latin Mass said, could bring about their wrath on you. and what is really strange, these people blend their republican/conservative politics into their Catholicism even though their political belief is in opposition to the Kingship of Christ! please, pray for these misguided Catholics they have been blinded by the false religion of Americanism.             great article by Angelus magazine(i forget which issue) titled; why catholics cannot be conservatives. must read for neo-cons!

That sounds nothing like the conservative Catholics I know.
Consider the article's definition of "traditionalist" and "conservative" in light of St Ignatius' _Rules for thinking with the Church_. I quote rules 1, 9, and 10 from Fr John Hardon SJ's _Treasury of Catholic Wisdom_:

"We must put aside all judgment of our own, and keep the mind ever ready and prompt to obey in all things the true Spouse of Christ our Lord, our Holy Mother, the hierarchical Church

"We must praise all the commandments of the Church, and be on the alert to find reasons to defend them, and by no means in order to criticize them."

"We should be more ready to approve and praise the orders, recommendations, and way of acting of our superiors than find fault with them. though some of the orders, etc., may not have been praiseworthy, yet to speak against them, either when preaching in public or in speaking before people, would rather be the cause of murmuring and scandal than profit. As a consequence, the people would become angry with their superiors, whether secular or spiritual..."



Something to think about.

Pax Christi,
Mortiy
(11-22-2009, 12:56 PM)mortify Wrote: [ -> ]Consider the article's definition of "traditionalist" and "conservative" in light of St Ignatius' _Rules for thinking with the Church_. I quote rules 1, 9, and 10 from Fr John Hardon SJ's _Treasury of Catholic Wisdom_:

"We must put aside all judgment of our own, and keep the mind ever ready and prompt to obey in all things the true Spouse of Christ our Lord, our Holy Mother, the hierarchical Church

"We must praise all the commandments of the Church, and be on the alert to find reasons to defend them, and by no means in order to criticize them."

"We should be more ready to approve and praise the orders, recommendations, and way of acting of our superiors than find fault with them. though some of the orders, etc., may not have been praiseworthy, yet to speak against them, either when preaching in public or in speaking before people, would rather be the cause of murmuring and scandal than profit. As a consequence, the people would become angry with their superiors, whether secular or spiritual..."



Something to think about.

Pax Christi,
Mortiy

Certainly is something to think about. I know I have posted a lot of things against JPII. While the things I posted may be absolutely true the reality is, even if JPII was the worst Pope in the history of the Church, unless I have the ear of the Committee or whoever it is that makes the decision to Canonize him, which surely I don't when posting on here, nothing good can come out of detracting against the Pope.

I must remember that when I die and go before Our Lord in judgement, I will not be answering for the sins of Pope John Paul II or Pope Benedict XVI or anyone else but my own sins. It is true that it is lawful to make others sins known if your intent is to instruct the ignorant, or if you have just reason, like to prevent the Canonization of someone that shouldn't be Canonized, but as I said, posting on an internet forum isn't going to do anything to accomplish any of those things. Instead of worrying about the sins of past or present Pope's or anyone else, I need to reflect on my own sins and work on changing my own life. Instead of posting about all the bad things the Pope's have done, I should pray for them. Instead of making light of the possibility of JPII being in Hell, I should seriously reflect on the possibility that I could end up in Hell if I die in the state of mortal sin.

The fact of the matter is that we have had bad Pope's before VII and we have had bad Pope's after VII. But they are still Pope's and we all must give them the respect that is due to their office.

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