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I always hear this stuff about obedience from modernist who tell me I have to be obedient to the Pope when he tries to introduce heresies. I always hear how Priests have to be obedient to Bishops who give unjust and illegal orders (such as suspending the Mass) But this I have a problem with.

It is true obedience is a wonderful thing and we must all have obedience to others depending on our state in life. Children must be obedient to their parents, adults must be obedient to their bosses, and yes, even religious (priests, brothers, sisters, Bishops, Cardinals) must be obedient to their superior. I also would agree that being disobedient can be a grave sin.

But no one is required to be obedient to an unjust order. If a parent tells a child to jump off a bridge is the child sinning if he or she doesn't? I don't think any sane person would say yes.

If a boss orders an employee to steal money from someone else would the employee be sinning if they refused? Again, I don't think any sane person would say yes.

Now, if a Pope or Bishop or Cardinal orders a priest to commit a grave sacrilege would a priest be sinning to disregard this unjust order? I don't think anyone that is sane would say they would be.

So yes, everyone should be obedient to their superiors, but only when those orders are licit and lawful and not harmful.

(12-03-2009, 06:11 PM)Petertherock Wrote: [ -> ]I always hear this stuff about obedience from modernist who tell me I have to be obedient to the Pope when he tries to introduce heresies.
What are these heresies that the Pope is introducing???
How about we start with all religions being equal, then we can throw in one world government. Kissing the Koran is another.

Those examples aren't commands to be obeyed or disobeyed.  One was a modernist-laden and false explanation and attempt at ecumenism, to which obedience is not required, since it's "pastoral" (modernism); and the other one was an impetuous and imprudent display of misguided ecumenism... we are free to criticize them both, and I think it our duty to do so.
(12-03-2009, 06:11 PM)Petertherock Wrote: [ -> ]I always hear this stuff about obedience from modernist who tell me I have to be obedient to the Pope when he tries to introduce heresies. I always hear how Priests have to be obedient to Bishops who give unjust and illegal orders (such as suspending the Mass) But this I have a problem with.

It is true obedience is a wonderful thing and we must all have obedience to others depending on our state in life. Children must be obedient to their parents, adults must be obedient to their bosses, and yes, even religious (priests, brothers, sisters, Bishops, Cardinals) must be obedient to their superior. I also would agree that being disobedient can be a grave sin.

But no one is required to be obedient to an unjust order. If a parent tells a child to jump off a bridge is the child sinning if he or she doesn't? I don't think any sane person would say yes.

If a boss orders an employee to steal money from someone else would the employee be sinning if they refused? Again, I don't think any sane person would say yes.

Now, if a Pope or Bishop or Cardinal orders a priest to commit a grave sacrilege would a priest be sinning to disregard this unjust order? I don't think anyone that is sane would say they would be.

So yes, everyone should be obedient to their superiors, but only when those orders are licit and lawful and not harmful.
True true.