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(12-21-2009, 08:08 AM)devotedknuckles Wrote: [ -> ]Our Lady told the pope tp consecrate russia not spome moscovite drunks to consecrate themselves
Big difference.
Sip

Elegantly put.
The Consecration is defined by Our Lady Herself as the TRIUMPH of Her IMMACULATE HEART.
what a shabbyy and insignificant triumph it would be if the mere redefinition of sovite communism into a modern corrupt "democracy" with no real change for the better in morality (in fact russia is worse) only a neopolitical sea change is to be considered the triumph...puuuuuleeeze ::)
The scenario I always imagined and so for current events are bareing this out, is that Russia is to become a vehicle for world peace after a time of great tribulation of some kind.
IMO it will be the world war that the Jews are inciting right now with IRAN. Russia is an unknown player to the USA and her zionist masters, Russia is the ONly thing IMO that kept Isreal /USA from attacking Iran already. It will come to the brink, Russia and her intact Orthodox culture will come Home to Rome, and will be a unapprochable force for peace in the World, with all eyes seeing clearly that it is Russias Alliance with the Pope that will giver her Moral authority to wage peace against the neo-con insanity. And the world will listen.
This I think would be more appropriate definition of the "Triumph"
(12-22-2009, 03:02 PM)unknown Wrote: [ -> ]
(12-21-2009, 10:15 AM)StrictCatholicGirl Wrote: [ -> ]From what I understand, the consecration of "the world" to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, by Pope John Paul II and the bishops of the world on March 25, 1984, was not exactly what Our Lady asked for - but that, according to Sr. Lucia, it was accepted by Our Lady nonetheless.

The problem is, Sr. Lucia never said that. Cardinal Bertone and others most likely lied and said she did.  In a 1985 interview with Sol de Fatima magazine she said the consecration failed. She told the same to reporter Enrico Romero in 1987.  Fr. Martin said in 1989 she told a cardinal that it had failed.  Then in the same year, her order received an order from the Vatican to start saying the consecration had been completed; that was confirmed by Father Coelho.  Forged letters have also been published in Lucia's name; the evidence is on Fr. Gruner's website.  And why did JPII after the consecration refer to the consecration as one the Blessed Virgin was "still awaiting"?

Yes, I have heard this, too. Most Catholics are only exposed to the Catholic tabloids, not what really happens behind the scenes.
(12-22-2009, 06:32 PM)voxpopulisuxx Wrote: [ -> ]The Consecration is defined by Our Lady Herself as the TRIUMPH of Her IMMACULATE HEART.
what a shabbyy and insignificant triumph it would be if the mere redefinition of sovite communism into a modern corrupt "democracy" with no real change for the better in morality (in fact russia is worse) only a neopolitical sea change is to be considered the triumph...puuuuuleeeze ::)
The scenario I always imagined and so for current events are bareing this out, is that Russia is to become a vehicle for world peace after a time of great tribulation of some kind.
IMO it will be the world war that the Jews are inciting right now with IRAN. Russia is an unknown player to the USA and her zionist masters, Russia is the ONly thing IMO that kept Isreal /USA from attacking Iran already. It will come to the brink, Russia and her intact Orthodox culture will come Home to Rome, and will be a unapprochable force for peace in the World, with all eyes seeing clearly that it is Russias Alliance with the Pope that will giver her Moral authority to wage peace against the neo-con insanity. And the world will listen.
This I think would be more appropriate definition of the "Triumph"




I think this is entirely plausable, and I further think that it could be Russia herself that finally reins in the radical muslim nations. Did you know  St Padre Pio once said that Russia would be converted before the US? That speaks volumes.
(12-22-2009, 08:13 PM)In nomine Patris Wrote: [ -> ]
(12-22-2009, 06:32 PM)voxpopulisuxx Wrote: [ -> ]The Consecration is defined by Our Lady Herself as the TRIUMPH of Her IMMACULATE HEART.
what a shabbyy and insignificant triumph it would be if the mere redefinition of sovite communism into a modern corrupt "democracy" with no real change for the better in morality (in fact russia is worse) only a neopolitical sea change is to be considered the triumph...puuuuuleeeze ::)
The scenario I always imagined and so for current events are bareing this out, is that Russia is to become a vehicle for world peace after a time of great tribulation of some kind.
IMO it will be the world war that the Jews are inciting right now with IRAN. Russia is an unknown player to the USA and her zionist masters, Russia is the ONly thing IMO that kept Isreal /USA from attacking Iran already. It will come to the brink, Russia and her intact Orthodox culture will come Home to Rome, and will be a unapprochable force for peace in the World, with all eyes seeing clearly that it is Russias Alliance with the Pope that will giver her Moral authority to wage peace against the neo-con insanity. And the world will listen.
This I think would be more appropriate definition of the "Triumph"

I think this is entirely plausable, and I further think that it could be Russia herself that finally reins in the radical muslim nations. Did you know  St Padre Pio once said that Russia would be converted before the US? That speaks volumes.

Although one wonders how this could happen, with muslims extremely dominant in Russia, and native Russians shrinking in population
It would be miraculous
which is the point
Here are the words attributed to the Holy Virgin, as it was recorded my Blessed Lucia in 1942

“You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war is going to end: but if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the Pontificate of Pius XI. When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that he is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father. To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of reparation on the First Saturdays. If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she shall be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world”.(7)   

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congre...ma_en.html

It is request to the future, the Holy Father until today was not persecuted. As a matter of fact Russia was not provided the opportunity (by the Western powers) to convert, and mere words without real basis for conversion could not be sufficient. We expect the wide persecution, martyrdom, annihilation of our present nations, great suffering of the Holy Father before the conditions will be ready for the conversion of Russia and a period of peace.

(12-23-2009, 09:14 AM)glgas Wrote: [ -> ]Here are the words attributed to the Holy Virgin, as it was recorded my Blessed Lucia in 1942

“You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war is going to end: but if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the Pontificate of Pius XI. When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that he is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father. To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of reparation on the First Saturdays. If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she shall be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world”.(7)    

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congre...ma_en.html

It is request to the future, the Holy Father until today was not persecuted. As a matter of fact Russia was not provided the opportunity (by the Western powers) to convert, and mere words without real basis for conversion could not be sufficient. We expect the wide persecution, martyrdom, annihilation of our present nations, great suffering of the Holy Father before the conditions will be ready for the conversion of Russia and a period of peace.

Yes glgas, I have already quoted that, please re-read the thread. You seem to be lost a bit.

Also, read the quote you just supplied again. I bolded the part that you should read.

Our Lady said IF her requests are heeded Russia will be converted....i.e - there is no need for any of the consequences of her requests NOT being heeded.

I think you dont actually understand what you are reading glgas. You need to brush up on your english before you can do some serious debating.

And also there is something you need to start doing on this forum and thats responding to arguments made against your points.

Several people showed your argument for Russia consecrating itself to be false - you didnt respond - you cant just ignore it and change your point.

Secondly you ignored two people when they stated that your understanding of what the Magisterium actually is, was wrong. You should address that point too. Dont just ignore it.

(12-23-2009, 09:33 AM)tradmaverick Wrote: [ -> ]Yes glgas, I have already quoted that, please re-read the thread. You seem to be lost a bit.

Or may be I just consider this conversation to be conversation and not battlefield.

Her request to "cease offending God,"  was not fulfilled, 100 million innocent people were mass murdered during the 20th Century.

We deserve the punishment.

with all due respect Tradmaverick,
glgas has been here quite awhile and knows how to properly post in the forum. This isnt a formal debate with rules of egangment and a book on procedures

::) jussayin
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