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Tie to time it comes up, as resolution for the problem of the world. I would appreciate if someone would enlighten me about this topic.

My basic principle is:  Russia is the Russians, only they can consecrate Russia.

As a message of out Lady the topic come up in 1917 and in 1942. In both case Germany was the key, which as country would be able to change the Communist Rule in Russia, and allow freedom to the Russian people to consecrate themselves.

So the meaning of the message in that times was: make quick and just peace with Germany, and help them to overthrow the Communism in Russia for the sake of the Western world.

This opportunity was missed, the Western power did not listened (as the Jews missed their time 2000 years ago), the wars (WWI and WWI) were not finished in time, so the Communism could grow and their idea (changing name) took over the Western world.

How do you see? 
Our Lady told the pope tp consecrate russia not spome moscovite drunks to consecrate themselves
Big difference.
Sip
(12-21-2009, 07:52 AM)glgas Wrote: [ -> ]Tie to time it comes up, as resolution for the problem of the world. I would appreciate if someone would enlighten me about this topic.

My basic principle is:  Russia is the Russians, only they can consecrate Russia.

As a message of out Lady the topic come up in 1917 and in 1942. In both case Germany was the key, which as country would be able to change the Communist Rule in Russia, and allow freedom to the Russian people to consecrate themselves.

So the meaning of the message in that times was: make quick and just peace with Germany, and help them to overthrow the Communism in Russia for the sake of the Western world.

This opportunity was missed, the Western power did not listened (as the Jews missed their time 2000 years ago), the wars (WWI and WWI) were not finished in time, so the Communism could grow and their idea (changing name) took over the Western world.

How do you see?   

Through the lense of tradition; not the blinders of novelty.

Quote by Glgas: "My basic principle is:  Russia is the Russians, only they can consecrate Russia."

So you're saying that The Mother of God was incorrect in the manner that she asked that this be accomplished?
In my message I clearly stated what in 1917 and 1942 our Lady could ask from the Western world: Make quick and just peace with Germany, let overthrow the atheism in Russa, and let allow the Russians to consecrate themselves to our Lord.

In my world either She and His Son is clearly for the freedom in this world, and allows the judgment only at the end, as the Creed says: Inde venturus est (future) judicare vivos et mortuos.  The world did not recognized the time

About the problem what the message means for us now, meditate what a faithful Jew should do now, who has the obligation as part of the Nation to acknowledge the Messias before the end times. Lip service is nothing, if you are Jew, separate yourself from the Nation is not a resulotion, so what you can do: evangelize from inside.e not Jew, let God take care them.

If you are Russian, go to Russia and eveangelize the message, from outside pray for them, consecrate for your own life in prayer and sacrifices, but avoid deceive yourself that lip service resolves anything.

(12-21-2009, 08:58 AM)matthew_talbot Wrote: [ -> ]Quote by Glgas: "My basic principle is:  Russia is the Russians, only they can consecrate Russia."

So you're saying that The Mother of God was incorrect in the manner that she asked that this be accomplished?
Here is the message in my world: "I shall come to ask for the Consecration of Russia to My Immaculate Heart...If people attend to My requests, Russia will be converted and the world will have peace."

No pope is mentioned, and she definitely is not totalitarian, who believes forcing people against their conscience. Her Son said:
Matthew 5:45 That you may be the children of your Father who is in heaven, who maketh his sun to rise upon the good, and bad, and raineth upon the just and the unjust.

No force before the last judgment. And if you belive that Russia is the key, you care about Russia, and her conversion, and do not help the atheist to rule the Russian people. The Consecration is act, not word only.

Would you so kind to quote what I missed

(12-21-2009, 08:08 AM)devotedknuckles Wrote: [ -> ]Our Lady told the pope tp consecrate russia not spome moscovite drunks to consecrate themselves
Big difference.
Sip
Your english is truly terrible glgas.

Anyway:

"You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war is going to end: but if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the Pontificate of Pius XI. When you see a night illuminated by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that he is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father. To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of reparation on the First Saturdays. If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she shall be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world."
The message from Our Lady is and was extra politics. This is about reliance on the message and not about the current politics nor the politics of the past. God sent Her in the role as messenger. The only way to quibble with what was asked is the way the Vatican has seemed to do. They have convinced themselves that Lucia had some fits of pius fantasy, and her message is not reliable. I'm no expert but is it necessary for the Pope and the Bishops to have some kind of jurisdiction over Russia before they can Consecrate Russia?  What would their reaction be? What would it hurt? If Fr. Gruner, and the SSPX are wrong about the Consecration, then we'll know soon after it, but if they are correct, then we will avoid some real problems.
tim
Our Lady appeared to Sister Lucy at Tuy, Spain, on June 13, 1929, to say that: “The moment has come when God asks the Holy Father to make, in union with all the bishops of the world, the consecration of Russia to My Immaculate Heart, promising to save it by this means.”


Or maybe you would prefer Vladimir Putin to do it instead.......... Personally Ill stick with our Blessed Lady's plan.
From what I understand, the consecration of "the world" to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, by Pope John Paul II and the bishops of the world on March 25, 1984, was not exactly what Our Lady asked for - but that, according to Sr. Lucia, it was accepted by Our Lady nonetheless. If you read the Old Testament and Moses' bartering with God, you know that God is not above negotiation.

After the 1984 consecration, the Soviet Union toppled in that country and people were free to worship again. No, that's not the same as "conversion" to the Catholic Faith. However, if the Russian Orthodox church comes into full communion with Rome (and I have a strong feeling it's going to happen in my lifetime), Fr. Gruner and others are going to have to seriously reconsider their positions.

- Lisa
I saw a documentary last night about Russia, Putin, Mevevded. (sp.?) The upshot is Russia is still the same as before only worse, now that the KGB and the criminal class work together. If the Consecration of JPII was accepted it will only be temporary, similar to Pius XII and his personal Consecration and the end of WWII. In other words we have been given some more time but it too can run out. Fr. Gruner is going to Rome to see if he can speak to the secret commision studying the issue. He is going to put his TV programs on Roman TV and try to meet with the members to see if he can speak to them directly.
tim
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