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R.br. On the morrow the sins of the earth shall be washed away.
R. On the morrow the sins of the earth shall be washed away.
V. And the Saviour of the world will be our King.
R. The sins of the earth shall be washed away.
&Gloria
R. On the morrow the sins of the earth shall be washed away.
_
V. On the morrow ye shall be saved.
R. Saith the Lord God of hosts.

This is the Responsory and Verse for Sext today (Vigil of Christmas).

If Herod's soldiers would be faster and they would kill Jesus, the worls would be saved: united with God again through the incarnation.

Also let me copy here the announcement of Christmas from the Martyrology, as a message that the Center of the world is the Incarnation

In the year 5199 from the creation of the world,
when in the beginning ' God created the heavens and
the earth In the year 2959 from the flood In the
year 2015 from the birth of Abraham In the year
151) from the going forth of the people of Israel
out of Egypt under Moses In the year 1032 from the
anointing of David as King In the 65th week
according to the prophecy of Daniel In the 194
Olympiad In the 752 from the foundation of the city
of Rome In the 42nd year of the reign of the
Emperor Octavian Augustus In the 6th age of the
world, While the whole earth was at peace, Jesus
Christ, Himself Eternal God and Son of the Eternal
Father, being pleased to hallow the world by His
most gracious coming, having been conceived of the
Holy Ghost, and when nine months were passed after
His conception, (all kneel down) was born of the
Virgin Mary at Bethlehem of Juda made Man, our Lord
Jesus Christ was born according to the flesh. 
Yes, very nice.
What the heck does this meanHuh?  Huh?

Quote:If Herod's soldiers would be faster and they would kill Jesus, the worls would be saved: united with God again through the incarnation.

(12-24-2009, 01:41 PM)voxpopulisuxx Wrote: [ -> ]What the heck does this meanHuh?  Huh?

Quote:If Herod's soldiers would be faster and they would kill Jesus, the worls would be saved: united with God again through the incarnation.

...oh, bizarre and probably heretical.
I dunno, but I help Laszlo a little on his web site, DivinumOfficium.com. Laszlo's English is not so good, but I can figure it out. What it takes is a little patience, charity, and not presuming his a heretic. Many of you here make me shake my head; 25 years old, sword brandished, accomplished at reading everything Catholic, and wet behind the ears. Fisheaters is for Catholics, if you want to be apologists, go where the Protestants, Jews, Mormons, etc. go and debate them, don't keep slaying your brothers and sisters. If you take it to it's logical extension you would not be happy until only 250,000 to 1,000,000 are Catholics, with the rest of us condemned to hell.
Merry Christmas,
tim 

ps; Vox and Quis, if I have gone to far, I'll take me lumps.
glgas Wrote:R.br. On the morrow the sins of the earth shall be washed away.
R. On the morrow the sins of the earth shall be washed away.
V. And the Saviour of the world will be our King.
R. The sins of the earth shall be washed away.
&Gloria
R. On the morrow the sins of the earth shall be washed away...

This is the Responsory and Verse for Sext today (Vigil of Christmas).

The above verse is also the Responsory at todays Lauds in the Liturgia Horarum.
(12-24-2009, 01:49 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote: [ -> ]
(12-24-2009, 01:41 PM)voxpopulisuxx Wrote: [ -> ]What the heck does this meanHuh?  Huh?

Quote:If Herod's soldiers would be faster and they would kill Jesus, the worls would be saved: united with God again through the incarnation.

...oh, bizarre and probably heretical.

My translation:  "If Herod's soldiers had worked faster and killed Jesus. the world would have been saved, as it was united with God again through the Incarnation."

It is bizarre and probably heretical.  The world was saved.  We are united with God through the Incarnation, atoning Death and Resurrection.  I suppose it is an interesting question what would have happened if Herod's soldiers had killed the Divine Child.  He would have risen from the dead nonetheless, but how would we have been saved?  We're saved through faith; however, faith entails obedience to His commandments.  He would not have had time to formulate His commandments.    

anamchara Wrote:It is bizarre and probably heretical.  The world was saved.  We are united with God through the Incarnation, atoning Death and Resurrection.  I suppose it is an interesting question what would have happened if Herod's soldiers had killed the Divine Child.  He would have risen from the dead nonetheless, but how would we have been saved?  We're saved through faith; however, faith entails obedience to His commandments.  He would not have had time to formulate His commandments.

This old MadTV clip came to mind:

(12-24-2009, 02:55 PM)timoose Wrote: [ -> ]I dunno, but I help Laszlo a little on his web site, DivinumOfficium.com. Laszlo's English is not so good, but I can figure it out. What it takes is a little patience, charity, and not presuming his a heretic. Many of you here make me shake my head; 25 years old, sword brandished, accomplished at reading everything Catholic, and wet behind the ears. Fisheaters is for Catholics, if you want to be apologists, go where the Protestants, Jews, Mormons, etc. go and debate them, don't keep slaying your brothers and sisters. If you take it to it's logical extension you would not be happy until only 250,000 to 1,000,000 are Catholics, with the rest of us condemned to hell.
Merry Christmas,
tim 

ps; Vox and Quis, if I have gone to far, I'll take me lumps.

Here in the fish tank, "heretic" is the new "modernist."  One doesn't have to have the slightest clue what it actually means, it's just cool to call other people that.  Makes you sound all Trenty and stuff. 

If only we knew how many people have been converted to Tradition by traddy Catholics screeching "heretic" at them.  Countless, I'm sure.
Quote: If Herod's soldiers would be faster and they would kill Jesus, the worls would be saved: united with God again through the incarnation.

There are many passages in the New Testament where Jesus, after healing someone, strictly forbids them to say anything (sometimes called the Messianic secret). This is because he doesn't want to go to the Cross before the appointed time. There is also the wedding at Cana when he says to his mother "my hour is not yet come" - yet he performs the miracle anyway. Jesus will choose apostles, establish the church, institute sacraments, preach and teach and prepare for the coming of the Holy Spirit because his "public life" was also part of the Divine Plan. 

"What ifs" are interesting to speculate on but fruitless to debate (not that you necessarily wanted to debate it - but it's more prudent to voice it as an "opinion" or "speculation" - not that that would stop others from saying it's heresy). Others have asked the question what if Judas had not betrayed the Lord? What if Pilate had chosen to let Jesus go instead of Barabbas? We have to understand that the Divine Plan will be accomplished with or without the help or hindrances of man's free will. It's a question of going around it (like the Flight into Egypt), or willingly submitting to it (Jesus' arrest) - but the Divine Plan will not be stopped.

- Lisa
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