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To be honest I just cant tell. Last night I was forced to go to a NO Midnight Mass but it was done very reverently. Do you think its true that the younger Priests are more reverent and that once the dissidents die out things will get better or is that just wishful thinking. I just dont know this has had me pretty deppressed today. Are we at the breaking point is the Church so far gone now with modernism that it wont be fixed. Part of me thinks that it is just a sinking ship and its time to get off. Going to Mass last night we drove by my old Russian Orthodox Church and part of me wanted to go back there where the liturgy isnt a shambles and the hierachy arent fruity apostates. I mean I look around me and I see things going to hell in a hand basket. Yes the Mass was NO last night and to be honest it wasnt bad for NO but it was the more traditional Priest if it had been father Fruity it would have been him praying for forgivness for the Churches treatment of women and homosexuals. I just dont know Prayers and conversation on this issue would be appreciated. Part of what I am worried about is what happens when Pope Benedict dies. Yes he has faults but I think he is the last hope for trads I pray I am wrong but I would be willing to bet any odds that the next Pope will be a JPIII wannabe or worse start ordaining women and such. ugh.
(12-26-2009, 02:23 AM)Baskerville Wrote: [ -> ]To be honest I just cant tell. Last night I was forced to go to a NO Midnight Mass but it was done very reverently. Do you think its true that the younger Priests are more reverent and that once the dissidents die out things will get better or is that just wishful thinking. I just dont know this has had me pretty deppressed today. Are we at the breaking point is the Church so far gone now with modernism that it wont be fixed. Part of me thinks that it is just a sinking ship and its time to get off. Going to Mass last night we drove by my old Russian Orthodox Church and part of me wanted to go back there where the liturgy isnt a shambles and the hierachy arent fruity apostates. I mean I look around me and I see things going to hell in a hand basket. Yes the Mass was NO last night and to be honest it wasnt bad for NO but it was the more traditional Priest if it had been father Fruity it would have been him praying for forgivness for the Churches treatment of women and homosexuals. I just dont know Prayers and conversation on this issue would be appreciated. Part of what I am worried about is what happens when Pope Benedict dies. Yes he has faults but I think he is the last hope for trads I pray I am wrong but I would be willing to bet any odds that the next Pope will be a JPIII wannabe or worse start ordaining women and such. ugh.

I say this with 100% absolute certainty...if a Pope ever starts ordaining women, I will officially be a Sede.

If the Church fails, Christ lied, and life is going to be horrible.

But Christ cannot lie, and the Church cannot fail.  A Pope cannot ordain a woman, and you all know that.  ;-)

I think things are getting better.  They may not be going at the speed which traditionalists want it to, but it is slowly being corrected.  Especially as the older priests are dying off. 

Anecdotally, seminarians today are more traditional and orthodox than your run-of-the-mill pastor.  Give it another 10-20 years as they all die off, and we'll be set, I think.

Short of that -
PRAY for devout, holy, and traditional priests.  PRAY for the Church, and for the Pope.  And live your life.  :-D
I did an English course with two capuchin novices this year. We had some really great talks about traditionalism and they both said that when they're ordained they want to offer the Traditional Mass. They also told me that one of the younger priests at their friary was learning the Traditional Mass and the community planned on using it occasionally. Added onto this we had to prepare an oral presentation on any topical issue for the course, most people chose environmentalism while the novices chose abortion and moral relativism. How's that? I also remember going to Mass at the Cathedral and waiting for everyone else to finish receiving communion. Two young men got down on their knees to receive, now a lot of people at the Cathedral receive on the tongue but I've never seen anyone else (other than myself) get on their knees. When they turned around I was delighted to see that they both had roman collars on and looked very young. They were both seminarians. So I wouldn't worry, time will sort it out. Until then just find hope in Christ's promise that the gates of Hell shall not prevail.
"To be honest I just cant tell. Last night I was forced to go to a NO Midnight Mass but it was done very reverently. Do you think its true that the younger Priests are more reverent and that once the dissidents die out things will get better or is that just wishful thinking. I just dont know this has had me pretty deppressed today. Are we at the breaking point is the Church so far gone now with modernism that it wont be fixed. Part of me thinks that it is just a sinking ship and its time to get off."

Can you explain how you went from the first sentiment to the next? It's like you went from hope to suicidal despair in one massive random leap!
(12-26-2009, 03:48 AM)Benno Wrote: [ -> ]"To be honest I just cant tell. Last night I was forced to go to a NO Midnight Mass but it was done very reverently. Do you think its true that the younger Priests are more reverent and that once the dissidents die out things will get better or is that just wishful thinking. I just dont know this has had me pretty deppressed today. Are we at the breaking point is the Church so far gone now with modernism that it wont be fixed. Part of me thinks that it is just a sinking ship and its time to get off."

Can you explain how you went from the first sentiment to the next? It's like you went from hope to suicidal despair in one massive random leap!

Yeah I did kinda do that didnt I. Its like this. I went to Mass with my Mom and we lucked out and got the good Priest we could very easily got the bad one in which case I wouldnt even have been able to say I went to a decent Mass. I feel like everything is in shambles. One parish may have a good Priest another have a terrible modernist. Even at the NO Church i went to Christmas eve they have a good one and a bad one. Things just seem to be so messed up. And I worry about things like I said Womens ordination which Like Peter the Rock if that happened I also would be a sede. I just dont know where this really came from I was watching some videos on youtube one was a latin Mass and another was the Coronation of Pius XII and I just get depressed at what we have lost even if I did have the opportunity to go to a good NO last night. See we have good younger Priests like Servus Maria talked about but we still have a heretical group of Bishops that they are forced to be obediant too and (I know this sounds bad) but it will take ten or twenty years for them to die off or be out to pasture and what if we get some real loopy Pope before then that completely makes things even worse, say a JPII (just his bad points) and a Paul VI (again just his bad points) all rolled into one. I dont I just worry I always have since I became Catholic but more so now because I am traditional. Also right now I am unable to attend my SSPX Church so I dont have the TLM to relieve my fear. I dunno. Maybe I am just an ekklesial  hypochondriac. Smile
(12-26-2009, 03:33 AM)Servus_Maria Wrote: [ -> ]I did an English course with two capuchin novices this year. We had some really great talks about traditionalism and they both said that when they're ordained they want to offer the Traditional Mass. They also told me that one of the younger priests at their friary was learning the Traditional Mass and the community planned on using it occasionally. Added onto this we had to prepare an oral presentation on any topical issue for the course, most people chose environmentalism while the novices chose abortion and moral relativism. How's that? I also remember going to Mass at the Cathedral and waiting for everyone else to finish receiving communion. Two young men got down on their knees to receive, now a lot of people at the Cathedral receive on the tongue but I've never seen anyone else (other than myself) get on their knees. When they turned around I was delighted to see that they both had roman collars on and looked very young. They were both seminarians. So I wouldn't worry, time will sort it out. Until then just find hope in Christ's promise that the gates of Hell shall not prevail.

Well thats good news SM.
(12-26-2009, 02:57 AM)CollegeCatholic Wrote: [ -> ]PRAY for devout, holy, and traditional priests.  PRAY for the Church, and for the Pope.  And live your life.  :-D

Good advice CC. Smile
Forget about emotions..they aren't reliable. If you want the feel good factor go to a pentecostal church when they have a guest speaker...emotions are rampant.
Let the facts speak for themselves.
                 Reverent NO mass
                 Reverent Seminarians            
                 Young NO priests are singing parts of the mass in Latin...its not the TLM but it is the thin edge of the wedge
                 Old NO priests doing the same
                 The freeing up of the TLM..have a look at the Remnant..there are more churches every week offering the TLM
                 An almost universal rejection of  "All will be saved" and now without exception in my diocese  the priests  are referring to the many that will be saved. To me that shows that priests are obedient and accept the directions of their bishop but when the correct translation was admitted so many of them changed even before the new missal has been printed.
                 Some NO parishes  allowing boys only to be altar servers.
                 Debate within the Church about the role of Tradition in the interpretation of the Vat 2
                 Dialogue between the Vatican and SSPX on issues concerning the documents of V2
                 More and more people receiving communiion on the tongue
                 Whole dioceses being directed by bishop to take communion on the tongue.
                 The Pope has said  "No female ordinations" and those that have taken place, the priestesses have been excommunicated.

I really enjoy this site but I sometimes get alarmed at the  frequent barrage of abuse directed toward the Catholic church and the Vatican heirarchy. Yeah it is abuse of the Catholic Church...but at the same time I appreciate that it is the dissenting voices that are making some huge changes and they are heard and  valid concerns have been noted by Vatican ..voices such as Michael Davies, The Remnant, Dr John RAO, The Fatima Crusader and many others including posters on this site.

Take heart and remember what College Catholic reminds us ie  the church can't fail...it's scriptural.....the gates of hell will not prevail...end of story
                 





I am not sure either ! I am worried that there is more acceptance for traditional Catholic worship (or Conservative) but less interest in traditional Catholic doctrine. I see many priests less condemnatory of the Traditional Mass, but I wonder if it's true liberalism (=couldn't care less) creeping in. In England there are many traditional Masses, but not always an increase in numbers of laity attending.In my Parish we have the Traditional Mass on three Sundays in the month,but the numbers have not increased over the last three years. I have an awful feeling that many priests and even bishops are growing War Weary and are not bothered about what happens in Church. To give an example, recently we had a modern Jesuit offering Mass in our parish and the week before a Bishop. Both agreed to celebrate Eastward facing, (New Rite) without a whimper of a complaint and did it - by today's standards - carefully and reverently. But, I wonder what it all means. These two clerics may just as happily the next day commit all sorts of strange and weird liturgical goings-on ; maybe not. Are we becoming a Comprehensive Church, which since the Motu Proprio, accommodates even traditionalists - High Low and Middle churchmen ? (Bishop Fellay's Zoo Cage Catholicism is apposite)
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