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(01-01-2010, 11:31 PM)Domini Canis Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-01-2010, 11:27 PM)alaric Wrote: [ -> ]Still, your name is your identity is it not? Doesn't the family who adopted deserve to have their name passed on?

Nope. See, I've still got my mom. She just remarried and hated my original dad so much she asked her second husband to adopt us and change our names. He did, but then they also got divorced when I was still very young, so my name means jack to me. Besides, second dad has a son to carry on his name.

(01-01-2010, 11:27 PM)alaric Wrote: [ -> ]Your biological father is a difficult situation, but remember, it's not just his name, but his father's as well, and his father, and so on. It shouldn't just die because of your spite for one man. think of your ancestors, their is more in a name than just a word.

I have no spite for my original dad. When did I say I did? I'm just saying that I don't have his name anymore, and I'm not going to--at the age of 35--change my name back to its original, since that would also involve changing my wife's and five children's. Too much of a pain in the ass--nothing to do with spite.
I'm really not questioning you either way about your relationship with either of your "fathers", just a family name. Do you want to see what was what you went by handed down in some way through your lineage for you to be remembered by? Most men want this that I know. even if they've had a total disconnect with their nuclear family.

You still didn't mention anything about how you feel about your ancestors of these surnames, does that mean nothing to you?

Maybe we were raised different, our family name and having sons carry it on was an important issue where I was raised. Still is in my book.
(01-01-2010, 10:45 PM)alaric Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-01-2010, 10:32 PM)karyn_anne Wrote: [ -> ]i converted from "nothing" (or paganism), though i would like to call it "materialisim in a sea of nothingness" =P

It was very easy for me (my parents didn't care) and i was starved of love and truth (well we all seek God, having been made for Him). So when i received the fullness of what the Catholic Church possessed i was absolutely happy.

Deo Gratias.
There's a lot more to Paganism more than "nothingness". I know and work with some Pagans, their very nature oriented and anti organized religion.

They also have a lot of animosity towards Christianity, especially Catholicism. They believe the church has persecuted them from it's inception. In some ways they were right, but It's more complicated than that. sometimes I dialogue with them if their rational, most time they're not.

I'm glad you found peace in the Church.

by nothingness i meant "no religion", although in the wonderful light of truth which only the Catholic church possesses anything else that is not for or of God is nothing.
(01-01-2010, 11:52 PM)alaric Wrote: [ -> ]I'm really not questioning you either way about your relationship with either of your "fathers", just a family name. Do you want to see what was what you went by handed down in some way through your lineage for you to be remembered by?

Nah, to me it's all vanity. I'm happy with just daughters, if that's what God has chosen to bless me with. As long as I bring my girls up in the fear and love of the Lord, then that can be my legacy.
I converted into the Church when the priest molestation scandal was at its height in 2001.  That alone caused many to wonder what in the world I was doing with my life.  I was 21.

Before, I was a Bible-thumping Baptist.  I understood apologetics and all that, and even tried converting people with all the usual techniques that a fundamentalist tries to use.  (Such techniques never worked.)

My grandparents were always proud of me, and Grandma even hoped that I'd become a preacher.  Dad was proud of me.  Mom was proud of me.  I even had friends who were fellow Protestant Christians who I was usually in agreement with on things. 

Then, I converted.  The entire family had no idea why.  My Dad was secretly happy because he was a lapsed Catholic who'd return to the Church before he died.  But mostly, everyone hated my decision.  Especially my friends.

Now, I am estranged from my Mom, sister, grandparents (they're still alive), and there is always an uncomfortable silence between my Protestant friends and I.  I remember asking one buddy: "Do you want to know why I converted?"  He said "no."

As a fellow leaning toward the TLM movement who lives in a NO city, I have really had a difficult time making any kind of friendships with other Catholics.  For the most part, my family is isolated from anyone else who is in the Catholic Faith, and most of the time we feel alone in our spiritual struggle.

I've read on other posts about other fisheaters who want to live in Catholic communities (I may have even posted such a subject once or twice).  Quite often, I see sarcastic replies such as: "Well, why do you want to live with other Catholics?  Sounds like you want a cloister."  or  "Aren't we supposed to be the salt of the earth?" 

I can totally empathize with folks trying to find other Catholics.  As for those kinds of replies, they strike me as very sarcastic, snotty, and unsympathetic. 
(01-01-2010, 11:52 PM)alaric Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-01-2010, 11:31 PM)Domini Canis Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-01-2010, 11:27 PM)alaric Wrote: [ -> ]Still, your name is your identity is it not? Doesn't the family who adopted deserve to have their name passed on?

Nope. See, I've still got my mom. She just remarried and hated my original dad so much she asked her second husband to adopt us and change our names. He did, but then they also got divorced when I was still very young, so my name means jack to me. Besides, second dad has a son to carry on his name.

(01-01-2010, 11:27 PM)alaric Wrote: [ -> ]Your biological father is a difficult situation, but remember, it's not just his name, but his father's as well, and his father, and so on. It shouldn't just die because of your spite for one man. think of your ancestors, their is more in a name than just a word.

I have no spite for my original dad. When did I say I did? I'm just saying that I don't have his name anymore, and I'm not going to--at the age of 35--change my name back to its original, since that would also involve changing my wife's and five children's. Too much of a pain in the ass--nothing to do with spite.
I'm really not questioning you either way about your relationship with either of your "fathers", just a family name. Do you want to see what was what you went by handed down in some way through your lineage for you to be remembered by? Most men want this that I know. even if they've had a total disconnect with their nuclear family.

You still didn't mention anything about how you feel about your ancestors of these surnames, does that mean nothing to you?

Maybe we were raised different, our family name and having sons carry it on was an important issue where I was raised. Still is in my book.

One solution is to give the natural father's name as a middle name. That way, it gets preserved because the children can choose to use it as adults.
To me it was easier to convert form my atheist/agnostic phase (malleable clean slate) then if I had converted straight from Southern Baptist and I definitely get more flack from other "Christians" then from the non religious crowd.
(01-01-2010, 08:53 PM)i.p.i. Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-01-2010, 08:18 PM)littlerose Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-01-2010, 08:07 PM)alaric Wrote: [ -> ][quote='i.p.i.' pid='495550' dateline='1262387568']

alaric,

you left out a letter in the header, making it unintentionally funny -- to me at least.



But you're right, I will start another thread sometime about covert Catholics...... :sneaky:

Oh, that reminds me, I want to watch the movie "Boondock Saints"  :popcorn:

"Boondock Saints" ?  please tell us something so i don't have to go to IMDB. 

'household saints' is interesting with vincent d'onofrio playing lili taylor's father, which is weird because earlier he had played her boyfriend/young husband in 'mystic pizza.'    :o  it works, though, because of makeup and good acting tracy ullman plays lili's mother.  especially good if you're italiano or like films with italian-american characters, plots involving miracles.

btw, you're right that there really are two questions involved.  alaric, or you or anybody could start two new threads.  another forum might be better if lengthy discussion is desired.  apologetics forum, i guess would be an option.

Boondock Saints: Watched it. It's pretty funny at first, but you have to be rather thick-skinned and taking a lot of the stuff as boston inside-jokes (I grew up not far from there and my mother is Irish-American and my father, French, we stayed in the French parish but one of my sisters married into the Irish... Anyway I was hoping thaqt  it would make some references to  Whitey  & William Bulger  but I guess it is still too soon to joke about them.  Some of the stuff only trads would get, like the wearing of rosaries as necklaces and after a while the plot deteriorated into a kind of ubergang thing that ruined it.  But the first half to two-thirds is well worth it for a hearty laugh. Especially those CP coats!  :laughing:
One clarification - It has gotten much better!  My conversion was more than a decade ago and God has blessed me greatly!  I would appreciate your prayers for the continued conversion of my husband (who wants nothing to do with the TLM).  He at least is now open to me going almost weekly and will now let me take the children who want to come with me.  I have to walk a fine line of not seeming to Push my view on my children or him.  I pray that my children will be drawn to the TLM as I have begun to take 2 (of the 5) that are expressing interest.

God has blessed me with many deep and lasting Catholic friendships.  I hope some day I get to meet some of the people from this forum.
When my family and I switched our allegiance over to the CC, we also felt a bit isolated, but then I got involved in the lector ministry and volunteered to be the 7th-grade religious education teacher. Things got better after that. I realized that I am a member of the community and cannot just sit there and wait for things to happen. I had to be proactive in my involvement, and that has made all the difference. Now everyone knows my name--and it's a big parish, right in the middle of Tokyo--and things are great!
(01-02-2010, 08:00 AM)Domini Canis Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-01-2010, 11:52 PM)alaric Wrote: [ -> ]I'm really not questioning you either way about your relationship with either of your "fathers", just a family name. Do you want to see what was what you went by handed down in some way through your lineage for you to be remembered by?

Nah, to me it's all vanity. I'm happy with just daughters, if that's what God has chosen to bless me with. As long as I bring my girls up in the fear and love of the Lord, then that can be my legacy.

you have a great attitude.

though i understand that many would agree with alaric, don't forget that daughters have the family name and can legally keep it when they marry and give it to their children.  or they can take their husband's name, make their maiden name their new middle name.  some couples agree to give some of the kids the father's surname and some the mother's.  others give them both names, hyphenated or not.  of course that's not been traditional in the US but i don't think the Church opposes it or ever has.  other western cultures have different traditions.

in the south, it's very common to have your mother's maiden name, or your father's mother's maiden name, or your mother's mother's maiden name, as your middle name, whether you're male or female.  any family tree supplies plenty of surnames to use as middle names for a whole passel of chilluns.  older family names are also passed on as first names as well as middle names. 

there are a lot of ways to keep family names 'alive' but doing so isn't important to everyone.  and there are some names in the family tree you probably don't want to hang around a kid's neck.


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