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(01-11-2010, 02:56 AM)yoyo Wrote:pfft

spam spaaaaaam spam
spam, canned ham.

um, so anyways. LDS shouldn;t be too hard to convert, once they are fully educated into things. They have no real apologetic, and adhere to no logical doctrines whatsoever.
Hindu to Catholic, that's a tricky one. My grandmother is a Hinduist but her brother was Catholic, and she seems to greatly respect the Faith.
Again, I guess it depends on certain things or whatever.
Its hard for anybody, really, to cnovert, because the simple facvt is you are going to have to trim the fat, be it friends or family or something else. But the Faith is so worth it!
I came from a protestant upbringing, but dabbled into all kinds of wierd and wacky stuff, including shamanism and various eastern stuff... mostly when i was reallyinto the doors lol.
lost all my old friends. haven't really made many new ones. but treasure don;t come for free. and the Faith was well worth the price.
(01-11-2010, 03:13 AM)Arun Wrote: [ -> ]spam, canned ham.

um, so anyways. LDS shouldn;t be too hard to convert, once they are fully educated into things. They have no real apologetic, and adhere to no logical doctrines whatsoever.
Hindu to Catholic, that's a tricky one. My grandmother is a Hinduist but her brother was Catholic, and she seems to greatly respect the Faith.
Again, I guess it depends on certain things or whatever.
Its hard for anybody, really, to cnovert, because the simple facvt is you are going to have to trim the fat, be it friends or family or something else. But the Faith is so worth it!
I came from a protestant upbringing, but dabbled into all kinds of wierd and wacky stuff, including shamanism and various eastern stuff... mostly when i was reallyinto the doors lol.
lost all my old friends. haven't really made many new ones. but treasure don;t come for free. and the Faith was well worth the price.

Funny thing, I thought Glenn Beck was a warm-fuzzy N-O neocon catholic then found out he is Mormon... so I can see the similar characterisitcs, but I don't know about converting Mormon to Traditionalist, except maybe for the respect for formality...

I think I had similar experience to yours except I left the catholic Church in frustration after being jolted out of a Catholic Community that seemed to implode from VII politics and now I deeply appreciate the preparation the nuns gave us for the solitary life, monasticism, really, since I too have to say I have very few friends.

I am just beginning to find people around me who are also figuring out the  Big Lie that is secular culture, but they are not Catholic. One is just a generic American christian totally focussed on material security and the other comes from  country devout  pentecostal but likes Saint Therese and has no problem with  a lot of our believfs.

In the first case  the obstacle to conversion might be  an inability to take the spiritual soul-life seriously and in the other case intense family loyalty to the old country church would be the obstacle.

But who knows, right? ;)
(01-03-2010, 03:17 PM)i.p.i. Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-02-2010, 08:00 AM)Domini Canis Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-01-2010, 11:52 PM)alaric Wrote: [ -> ]I'm really not questioning you either way about your relationship with either of your "fathers", just a family name. Do you want to see what was what you went by handed down in some way through your lineage for you to be remembered by?

Nah, to me it's all vanity. I'm happy with just daughters, if that's what God has chosen to bless me with. As long as I bring my girls up in the fear and love of the Lord, then that can be my legacy.

you have a great attitude.

though i understand that many would agree with alaric, don't forget that daughters have the family name and can legally keep it when they marry and give it to their children.  or they can take their husband's name, make their maiden name their new middle name.  some couples agree to give some of the kids the father's surname and some the mother's.  others give them both names, hyphenated or not.  of course that's not been traditional in the US but i don't think the Church opposes it or ever has.  other western cultures have different traditions.

in the south, it's very common to have your mother's maiden name, or your father's mother's maiden name, or your mother's mother's maiden name, as your middle name, whether you're male or female.  any family tree supplies plenty of surnames to use as middle names for a whole passel of chilluns.  older family names are also passed on as first names as well as middle names. 

there are a lot of ways to keep family names 'alive' but doing so isn't important to everyone.  and there are some names in the family tree you probably don't want to hang around a kid's neck.

I'm from the South and this is true. The maternal family is not forgotten and the family names pop up all over the place.

Alaric, I just want to make sure you know that fundamentalists don't believe in speaking in tongues, at least I know of none who do. That's very much a charismatic thing.
(01-11-2010, 03:48 AM)littlerose Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-11-2010, 03:13 AM)Arun Wrote: [ -> ]spam, canned ham.

um, so anyways. LDS shouldn;t be too hard to convert, once they are fully educated into things. They have no real apologetic, and adhere to no logical doctrines whatsoever.
Hindu to Catholic, that's a tricky one. My grandmother is a Hinduist but her brother was Catholic, and she seems to greatly respect the Faith.
Again, I guess it depends on certain things or whatever.
Its hard for anybody, really, to cnovert, because the simple facvt is you are going to have to trim the fat, be it friends or family or something else. But the Faith is so worth it!
I came from a protestant upbringing, but dabbled into all kinds of wierd and wacky stuff, including shamanism and various eastern stuff... mostly when i was reallyinto the doors lol.
lost all my old friends. haven't really made many new ones. but treasure don;t come for free. and the Faith was well worth the price.

Funny thing, I thought Glenn Beck was a warm-fuzzy N-O neocon catholic then found out he is Mormon... so I can see the similar characterisitcs, but I don't know about converting Mormon to Traditionalist, except maybe for the respect for formality...

I think I had similar experience to yours except I left the catholic Church in frustration after being jolted out of a Catholic Community that seemed to implode from VII politics and now I deeply appreciate the preparation the nuns gave us for the solitary life, monasticism, really, since I too have to say I have very few friends.

I am just beginning to find people around me who are also figuring out the  Big Lie that is secular culture, but they are not Catholic. One is just a generic American christian totally focussed on material security and the other comes from  country devout  pentecostal but likes Saint Therese and has no problem with  a lot of our believfs.

In the first case  the obstacle to conversion might be  an inability to take the spiritual soul-life seriously and in the other case intense family loyalty to the old country church would be the obstacle.

But who knows, right? ;)

Oh, yes, my point about the Mormons is that there is nothing in their religion to hold an intelligent, educated person's faith. It requires the constant suspension of intellect to function on a practical level. And it doesn't really have a theological level.

Therefore, as it is often rather easy to convince a man of intelligence of at least the fundamental logic side of the Faith, any intelligent men ensnared in the clutches of that particular heresy should be relatively easy to convince.
(01-11-2010, 05:38 PM)Arun Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-11-2010, 03:48 AM)littlerose Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-11-2010, 03:13 AM)Arun Wrote: [ -> ]spam, canned ham.

um, so anyways. LDS shouldn;t be too hard to convert, once they are fully educated into things. They have no real apologetic, and adhere to no logical doctrines whatsoever.
Hindu to Catholic, that's a tricky one. My grandmother is a Hinduist but her brother was Catholic, and she seems to greatly respect the Faith.
Again, I guess it depends on certain things or whatever.
Its hard for anybody, really, to cnovert, because the simple facvt is you are going to have to trim the fat, be it friends or family or something else. But the Faith is so worth it!
I came from a protestant upbringing, but dabbled into all kinds of wierd and wacky stuff, including shamanism and various eastern stuff... mostly when i was reallyinto the doors lol.
lost all my old friends. haven't really made many new ones. but treasure don;t come for free. and the Faith was well worth the price.

Funny thing, I thought Glenn Beck was a warm-fuzzy N-O neocon catholic then found out he is Mormon... so I can see the similar characterisitcs, but I don't know about converting Mormon to Traditionalist, except maybe for the respect for formality...

I think I had similar experience to yours except I left the catholic Church in frustration after being jolted out of a Catholic Community that seemed to implode from VII politics and now I deeply appreciate the preparation the nuns gave us for the solitary life, monasticism, really, since I too have to say I have very few friends.

I am just beginning to find people around me who are also figuring out the  Big Lie that is secular culture, but they are not Catholic. One is just a generic American christian totally focussed on material security and the other comes from  country devout  pentecostal but likes Saint Therese and has no problem with  a lot of our believfs.

In the first case  the obstacle to conversion might be  an inability to take the spiritual soul-life seriously and in the other case intense family loyalty to the old country church would be the obstacle.

But who knows, right? ;)

Oh, yes, my point about the Mormons is that there is nothing in their religion to hold an intelligent, educated person's faith. It requires the constant suspension of intellect to function on a practical level. And it doesn't really have a theological level.

Therefore, as it is often rather easy to convince a man of intelligence of at least the fundamental logic side of the Faith, any intelligent men ensnared in the clutches of that particular heresy should be relatively easy to convince.

The problem is that the LDS church does an excellent job of placing so many things (like every aspect of your life, for example) between reason and faith that reason never really gets to take a good look at the faith.  My father is a very devout Mormon.  He is also a very intelligent and well-read man.  He is a critical thinker, sometimes to the extreme.  But he never shines that light on his LDS faith.  In fact, he thinks that his faith is perfectly reasonable.  His religion is too much of a foundation of his life and worldview for him to question it, especially now later in life.  The LDS church has got the whole 'cognitive dissonance' thing figured out and working well for them.

Pax vobiscum,
Jesse
(01-11-2010, 03:48 AM)littlerose Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-11-2010, 03:13 AM)Arun Wrote: [ -> ]spam, canned ham.

um, so anyways. LDS shouldn;t be too hard to convert, once they are fully educated into things. They have no real apologetic, and adhere to no logical doctrines whatsoever.
Hindu to Catholic, that's a tricky one. My grandmother is a Hinduist but her brother was Catholic, and she seems to greatly respect the Faith.
Again, I guess it depends on certain things or whatever.
Its hard for anybody, really, to cnovert, because the simple facvt is you are going to have to trim the fat, be it friends or family or something else. But the Faith is so worth it!
I came from a protestant upbringing, but dabbled into all kinds of wierd and wacky stuff, including shamanism and various eastern stuff... mostly when i was reallyinto the doors lol.
lost all my old friends. haven't really made many new ones. but treasure don;t come for free. and the Faith was well worth the price.

Funny thing, I thought Glenn Beck was a warm-fuzzy N-O neocon catholic then found out he is Mormon... so I can see the similar characterisitcs, but I don't know about converting Mormon to Traditionalist, except maybe for the respect for formality...

Glenn Beck was raised Catholic so maybe that's what you are picking up on.  I think he converted when he met his wife when he was sobering up.

For those interested in Mormonism, you should look at this book:  http://www.catholiccompany.com/catholic-...li=1001498

It is fascinating....written by a former Catholic priest who converted to Mormonism, rose up the ranks and eventually taught in their seminary, and then left and came back to the Church.  It is the most thorough Catholic apologetics response to Mormonism you'll find.
(01-11-2010, 07:13 PM)Jesse Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-11-2010, 05:38 PM)Arun Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-11-2010, 03:48 AM)littlerose Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-11-2010, 03:13 AM)Arun Wrote: [ -> ]spam, canned ham.

um, so anyways. LDS shouldn;t be too hard to convert, once they are fully educated into things. They have no real apologetic, and adhere to no logical doctrines whatsoever.
Hindu to Catholic, that's a tricky one. My grandmother is a Hinduist but her brother was Catholic, and she seems to greatly respect the Faith.
Again, I guess it depends on certain things or whatever.
Its hard for anybody, really, to cnovert, because the simple facvt is you are going to have to trim the fat, be it friends or family or something else. But the Faith is so worth it!
I came from a protestant upbringing, but dabbled into all kinds of wierd and wacky stuff, including shamanism and various eastern stuff... mostly when i was reallyinto the doors lol.
lost all my old friends. haven't really made many new ones. but treasure don;t come for free. and the Faith was well worth the price.

Funny thing, I thought Glenn Beck was a warm-fuzzy N-O neocon catholic then found out he is Mormon... so I can see the similar characterisitcs, but I don't know about converting Mormon to Traditionalist, except maybe for the respect for formality...

I think I had similar experience to yours except I left the catholic Church in frustration after being jolted out of a Catholic Community that seemed to implode from VII politics and now I deeply appreciate the preparation the nuns gave us for the solitary life, monasticism, really, since I too have to say I have very few friends.

I am just beginning to find people around me who are also figuring out the  Big Lie that is secular culture, but they are not Catholic. One is just a generic American christian totally focussed on material security and the other comes from  country devout  pentecostal but likes Saint Therese and has no problem with  a lot of our believfs.

In the first case  the obstacle to conversion might be  an inability to take the spiritual soul-life seriously and in the other case intense family loyalty to the old country church would be the obstacle.

But who knows, right? ;)

Oh, yes, my point about the Mormons is that there is nothing in their religion to hold an intelligent, educated person's faith. It requires the constant suspension of intellect to function on a practical level. And it doesn't really have a theological level.

Therefore, as it is often rather easy to convince a man of intelligence of at least the fundamental logic side of the Faith, any intelligent men ensnared in the clutches of that particular heresy should be relatively easy to convince.

The problem is that the LDS church does an excellent job of placing so many things (like every aspect of your life, for example) between reason and faith that reason never really gets to take a good look at the faith.  My father is a very devout Mormon.  He is also a very intelligent and well-read man.  He is a critical thinker, sometimes to the extreme.  But he never shines that light on his LDS faith.  In fact, he thinks that his faith is perfectly reasonable.  His religion is too much of a foundation of his life and worldview for him to question it, especially now later in life.  The LDS church has got the whole 'cognitive dissonance' thing figured out and working well for them.

Pax vobiscum,
Jesse

See if you can get him to read "Under the Banner of Heaven" by Jon Krakauer and "God Makers" by Ed Decker.
I converted from atheism 10 years ago. One of the hardest parts was dealing with my family, especially my father whom I idolized and adored.  He kind of took it as a denial of the values he tried to teach me, especially when I was discerning a vocation to religious life.  We've moved past that now.  

That said, I think my background makes it more of a challenge to stay Catholic.  There are many, many times where I feel like i don't believe in God.  For me, that is a more natural feeling that believing in something I cannot see or prove.  
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