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Full Version: No Solemnity in California
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(01-03-2010, 03:17 AM)OCLittleFlower Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-02-2010, 11:45 PM)Sorcha Wrote: [ -> ]It's not a day of obligation down here in Orange County, and only about half of the NO churches I looked at even mentioned it, and none of those had any special services which differed from their standard weekly schedules. The only exception was the parish I attend-- St. John the Baptist-- which is run by the Norbertines.  They had extra NO masses and even a High TLM. In the sermon last Sunday, they just stressed that "it would be good" if people made a point to attend, however the priest didn't get into the history or it and how it used to be a day of obligation.

Haha.  My fiance and I attended the TLM at SJB...we thought it was a holy day of obligation, though.

Wow! I missed you. We're newbies. Just got back to Cali before Christmas.  How often to you assist at Mass at SJB?
(01-03-2010, 03:56 AM)Sorcha Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-03-2010, 03:17 AM)OCLittleFlower Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-02-2010, 11:45 PM)Sorcha Wrote: [ -> ]It's not a day of obligation down here in Orange County, and only about half of the NO churches I looked at even mentioned it, and none of those had any special services which differed from their standard weekly schedules. The only exception was the parish I attend-- St. John the Baptist-- which is run by the Norbertines.  They had extra NO masses and even a High TLM. In the sermon last Sunday, they just stressed that "it would be good" if people made a point to attend, however the priest didn't get into the history or it and how it used to be a day of obligation.

Haha.  My fiance and I attended the TLM at SJB...we thought it was a holy day of obligation, though.

Wow! I missed you. We're newbies. Just got back to Cali before Christmas.  How often to you assist at Mass at SJB?

Pretty much weekly...unless I'm out of town or need to attend early mass, in which case I go to the 8am at San Juan.  How about you?
I think the state of the faith in California is connected to this sort of thing (I'm serious):

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/inde...666.0.html
(01-02-2010, 10:24 PM)Magdalene Wrote: [ -> ]But today is a Friday -- not a Saturday or a Monday – so why the exception in California? “It’s nothing really sinister,” a former priest of the Los Angeles archdiocese told California Catholic Daily. "It’s really pretty mundane – for the convenience of the lay people.

Ahh...collegiality at it's finest.  The springtime of Vat. II.  :accolades:  Will Christmas be next on the chopping block?  Why not?  Seems like individual bishops are now their own little popes and councils.  Oh, btw, this is not "pretty mundane".  This is so typical and so pitiful. 
(01-03-2010, 12:05 AM)Credo Wrote: [ -> ]
Magdalene Wrote:"It’s really pretty mundane – for the convenience of the lay people.”
Reluctant to tie heavy burdens to the backs of men (cf. Mt. 23:4), perhaps the bishops of California have dispensed with the mandatory worship as a mercy to those believers caught in an economic machine far too demanding of souls created in God's image, but far too real as well.

Baloney.  It's secularism and indifference, being actively promoted and sanctioned by the heirarchy.

A heavy burden....there are very few people who could not, six times year for Holy Days, get to work a little late or leave a little early.  The Jews don't even work on their holy days.

Matthew 26:40 What, could ye not watch with me one hour?
(01-03-2010, 12:05 AM)Credo Wrote: [ -> ]
Magdalene Wrote:"It’s really pretty mundane – for the convenience of the lay people.”
One should not be too critical concerning the above statement.
This is not fifty, or one hundred, or one thousand years ago. Ours is not a Christian culture. Employers demand that their workers be available to labor from Sunday - Saturday.* This is wrong and unjust. Employers and societies which prevent their workers from attending divine worship will answer for such on the Last Day.** Nonetheless, economic constraints oftentimes oblige Christians to work on Feast days in order to put food on the table. I reckon this to be especially the case in California. Foremen there are especially exploitative of the Spanish-speaking believers. 
Reluctant to tie heavy burdens to the backs of men (cf. Mt. 23:4), perhaps the bishops of California have dispensed with the mandatory worship as a mercy to those believers caught in an economic machine far too demanding of souls created in God's image, but far too real as well.
*Opps, we can't have the Lord's Day kick-off the week anymore. Make that Monday - Sunday,
** Given the current depression, however, perhaps we need not wait until Judgment Day to see God’s chastisement discipline mankind. 
I'm sorry, but I've got to respectful disagree. This is a joke. To say this is an act of mercy is ridiculous. This is the wearing down of the faith, minimizing of the faith and just another example of the bishops supporting lazy catholics rather than admonishing them.
I do agree with you 100% that there are some, maybe even many people who have demands that prohibit them from attending, but to remove the obligation for all because of some is a total cop out.

I attend NO mass 90-95% of the time so don't give me that 'you're just being anti-NO line'. I'm just saying this is a joke. This is just another example of what is KILLING the church today. This really has nothing to do with the NO, just has to do with lazy lay people and the bishops who encourage them. I thought the faith was supposed to be the most important thing in our lives?

It's just very frustrating to hear of bishops pulling this crap and lay people going right along with then whining about the current state of the church like it's some kind of mystery. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that it is just this kind of minimization of the faith that leads people to stop caring. I'll stop ranting now, sorry.
(01-03-2010, 12:44 PM)RalphKramden Wrote: [ -> ]I do agree with you 100% that there are some, maybe even many people who have demands that prohibit them from attending, but to remove the obligation for all because of some is a total cop out.

Absolutely true.  For those who cannot make it to Mass owing to work, that is, who really have NO choice, they are dispensed.

Mrs. DS for example, being USAF, is frequently on duty at Mass times....that's something you can't get out of, and the chaplains have counseled her that it's OK under the circumstances. It's "just cause".

Although I can hear Credo cue-ing up the speech about how the unjust capitalist pigs are going to cast the poor working slobs into the outer darkness for missing a little work, I'd suggest it's highly unlikely that anyone would lose their job for taking time to attend Mass.
I am willing to bet that the Bishop of Oakland did maintain this as a  day of obligation.

This is a perfect example of by the fruits you shall know them.
Hundred years ago there we 36 holy days of obligation above Sundays. By the time of Vatican II this was reduced to seven. The change slowed down. The reason is that that hundred years ago the Church was the major entertainment, today it is hard obligation.  Imho God is supporting the freedom, not the force


Here is the list of the holy days of obligation in the better old times (my grandfathers time)
Dominicies omnes
Nativitas Domini
Circumcisio
Epiphania
Feria II et II Paschatis
Ascensio Domini
Feria II et III Pentecostes
Festum Ssmi Corporis Christi
Festum D. N. Jesu Christ! Regis
Inventio S. Grucis
Conceptio immaculata B. M. V.
Purificatio B. Mariae Virg.
Annuntiatio B. Mariae Virg.
Assumptio B. Marias Virg.
Nativitas B. Marias Virg.
Dedicatio S. Michaelis Archangeli
Nativitas S. Joannis Baptists
Festum S. Joseph, Sponsi B. Ma­rias Virg., Gonf.
Solemnitas  S. Joseph, Sponsi B. Mariae Virg., Gonf. et Ecclesiae universalis Patroni
Festum S. Andreae Ap.
Festum S. Thomas Ap.
Festum S. Joannis Ap. et Ev.
Festum S. Matthiae Ap.
Festum Ss. Philippi et Jacobi App.
Festum Ss. Petri et Paul! App.
Festum S. Jacobi Ap.
Festum S. Bartholomaei Ap.
Festum S. Matthsei Ap. et Ev.
Festum Ss. Simonis et Judae App.
Festum S. Stephani Protomartyris
Festum Ss. Innocentium Mm.
Festum S. Annae, Matris B. Mariae Virg.
Festum S. Laurentii Mart.
Festum S. Joachim, Patris B. Ma­riae Virg., Conf.
Festum Omnium Sanctorum
Festum Patronorum principalium Oppidi vel Giritatis, Dicecesis, Provincias et Nationis

(01-03-2010, 12:24 PM)DesperatelySeeking Wrote: [ -> ]A there are very few people who could not, six times year for Holy Days, get to work a little late or leave a little early. 

Not only that.. but we're talking about the 1st of January here. It's New Year's Day! A national holiday. Most everybody is off work so there's no excuse not to attend Mass.
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