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(01-10-2010, 07:55 PM)StrictCatholicGirl Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with Jayne. Obligations are opportunities for humility and grace.

The goal is to obey out of love, not out of fear.

- Lisa

Way to make me look long-winded, Lisa.  But thanks for agreeing anyhow.  ;D
Ive had either a fussy baby or a fussy toddler at church for the last 5 yrs. My dh and I have a system for Sundays now, if hes not working. He takes the older girls with him (5 and 3) and I go to the late Mass by myself. If he is working, my mom usually goes to the early mass, and watches my little guy (21 months) and my 3 yr old, depending on her mood, and I take my 5 yr old with me. I have NEVER felt i missed my obligation ever. I am there, and doing the best I can, while dealing with babies or toddlers...and Jesus knows this!
Soon I'll have the new baby, so he will come with me as he'll be nursed, we have a crying room, but its tiny, so I only go in there when I have a nursing baby, if I do have my toddlers, I go downstairs (theres speakers, so you can hear and follow along). the crying room is too small for squirming rambunctious kids!
tradmaverick Wrote:I thought you were a traditional Catholic?

The more I think about it, the more it seems meaningless how I classify myself. In my travels, in real life and in cyberspace, I've been called everything from a member of the Taliban for supporting the SSPX, to a liberal for liking the Liturgia Horarum and particular parts of the New Mass. I've seen the same confusion of labeling on a large scale between various religious groups, publishers and parishes to question the reality whole "Novus Ordo v. traditional" bit.

I'm happy to call myself a simply Catholic and be done with it. To some this might seem like a cop-out, and maybe it is. But keeping an eye on current developments, the more I am convinced that we all better close ranks pretty soon before the social, political and economic stuff hits the fan. I have a feeling - and maybe it's just a feeling - that within the not too distant future a lot of stuff is going to go down. I want to shake people sometimes and tell them to stop worrying about about stupid things like the Sign of Peace at Mass or holding hands at the Pater Noster. Start worrying about things that matter. Stop worrying about if they used guitars at your latest Mass, and start caring about the number of Catholic kids who kill themselves, the problem of pornography amongst Christian men, the ambivalent attitude we believers have towards the poor, the abandonment of the elderly... SOS! SOS! The ship's going down! Start praying your breviaries, start praying your Rosaries, give a bum $20, turn off your TVs and read your Bibles, visit the abandoned. SOS! SOS! The stuff is going to hit to fan soon! Be prepared! SOS!...

Quote:Some of your other posts have been quite orthodox!  What on earth is with this one?

Mandatory Mass attendance is a matter of discipline. It is not and issue of morals, and certainly not of doctrine. As such, it's not a matter of orthodoxy or heterodoxy, but it's presently one of orthopraxy. The way I look at it, if the believer knows what's happening at Mass and the Divine Office, they're going to be there anyway. Like I've said, the only people who seem to worry about this stuff in the first place and those who have their spiritual house in order.

I taught CCD for about two years (...before I literally almost had a nervous breakdown dealing with the priest and parish beauracy - but that's another story). We teachers waxed long and elegant about "holy days of obligations" and "you have to be at Mass on Sunday," and I don't think we did anything but tick the kids off. If a religion has to threaten hellfire just to get their people to basic congregational worship, what does that say about the health of the religion?

Based on my past posts, hopefully you see that I take the liturgy - and its subsequent attendance - seriously. Yet I wonder if there might not be another way to go about things. Sure Mass attendance was high when such legal obligations were stressed; and sure, when such stressed have receded in the past few decades attendance has fallen. Instead of wringing our hands, however, perhaps we need to question the value which - for lack of a better term - forced worship (which is exactly what you have when you tell people they will go to hellfire if they're not at Mass on Sunday) has. Perhaps it is better to have, as some have posited about Pope Benedict's governing strategy, a smaller but more devout Church.
Jayne, your poem was wonderful!  I can relate to it completely and it brought tears to my eyes at the end.

Just today I missed a good portion of the Mass because I had an antsy toddler and a wave of morning sickness.  We went downstairs where some ladies were preparing coffee and donuts.  I had a small glass of cider to settle my stomach (toddler had his bottle... no donuts during Mass!) and then we went back up when it was time to receive.

I may have to start attending the Saturday evening vigil Mass because morning sickness is worse in the... well... morning.  Hopefully only eight more weeks of this.  It gives me a good opportunity to "offer it up".
(01-10-2010, 09:48 PM)Credo Wrote: [ -> ]The more I think about it, the more it seems meaningless how I classify myself. In my travels, in real life and in cyberspace, I've been called everything from a member of the Taliban for supporting the SSPX, to a liberal for liking the Liturgia Horarum and particular parts of the New Mass. I've seen the same confusion of labeling on a large scale between various religious groups, publishers and parishes to question the reality whole "Novus Ordo v. traditional" bit.

I'm happy to call myself a simply Catholic and be done with it. To some this might seem like a cop-out, and maybe it is. But keeping an eye on current developments, the more I am convinced that we all better close ranks pretty soon before the social, political and economic stuff hits the fan. I have a feeling - and maybe it's just a feeling - that within the not too distant future a lot of stuff is going to go down. I want to shake people sometimes and tell them to stop worrying about about stupid things like the Sign of Peace at Mass or holding hands at the Pater Noster. Start worrying about things that matter. Stop worrying about if they used guitars at your latest Mass, and start caring about the number of Catholic kids who kill themselves, the problem of pornography amongst Christian men, the ambivalent attitude we believers have towards the poor, the abandonment of the elderly... SOS! SOS! The ship's going down! Start praying your breviaries, start praying your Rosaries, give a bum $20, turn off your TVs and read your Bibles, visit the abandoned. SOS! SOS! The stuff is going to hit to fan soon! Be prepared! SOS!...

To be fair....Im with you on that whole statement.

(01-10-2010, 09:48 PM)Credo Wrote: [ -> ]I taught CCD for about two years (...before I literally almost had a nervous breakdown dealing with the priest and parish beauracy - but that's another story). We teachers waxed long and elegant about "holy days of obligations" and "you have to be at Mass on Sunday," and I don't think we did anything but tick the kids off. If a religion has to threaten hellfire just to get their people to basic congregational worship, what does that say about the health of the religion?

I am not sure that I have even referred to the threat of hell when teaching my children about holy days of obligation.  That is so far down the list of reasons for going that I don't think that I have ever gotten to it.  Children do ask "why do I have to go to Mass" and there are a lot of good answers depending on the circumstances.  I cannot recall ever using that one.
(01-10-2010, 09:53 PM)GraceSeeker Wrote: [ -> ]I may have to start attending the Saturday evening vigil Mass because morning sickness is worse in the... well... morning.  Hopefully only eight more weeks of this.  It gives me a good opportunity to "offer it up".

That is exactly the right approach.  I wish that I had known about "offering it up" when I was a young mother and new Catholic.  It was yet another thing left out of my RCIA instruction.

Anyhow, one great thing about God taking on human form is that we can be confident that He understands completely about all these weaknesses and problems.  God does not make unreasonable demands on us.

I'm glad you liked my poem and I hope your pregnancy goes well.
(01-10-2010, 09:48 PM)Credo Wrote: [ -> ]I'm happy to call myself a simply Catholic and be done with it. To some this might seem like a cop-out, and maybe it is. But keeping an eye on current developments, the more I am convinced that we all better close ranks pretty soon before the social, political and economic stuff hits the fan. I have a feeling - and maybe it's just a feeling - that within the not too distant future a lot of stuff is going to go down. I want to shake people sometimes and tell them to stop worrying about about stupid things like the Sign of Peace at Mass or holding hands at the Pater Noster. Start worrying about things that matter. Stop worrying about if they used guitars at your latest Mass, and start caring about the number of Catholic kids who kill themselves, the problem of pornography amongst Christian men, the ambivalent attitude we believers have towards the poor, the abandonment of the elderly... SOS! SOS! The ship's going down! Start praying your breviaries, start praying your Rosaries, give a bum $20, turn off your TVs and read your Bibles, visit the abandoned.

Yes! Preach it, Credo! The axe is laid to the root of the trees! He who has two coats, let him give to him that has none; and he that has meat, let him do likewise. Do violence to no man; neither calumniate any man; give a bum $20 bucks! Amen, brother!
(01-10-2010, 09:48 PM)Credo Wrote: [ -> ]I'm happy to call myself a simply Catholic and be done with it. To some this might seem like a cop-out, and maybe it is. But keeping an eye on current developments, the more I am convinced that we all better close ranks pretty soon before the social, political and economic stuff hits the fan. I have a feeling - and maybe it's just a feeling - that within the not too distant future a lot of stuff is going to go down. I want to shake people sometimes and tell them to stop worrying about about stupid things like the Sign of Peace at Mass or holding hands at the Pater Noster. Start worrying about things that matter. Stop worrying about if they used guitars at your latest Mass, and start caring about the number of Catholic kids who kill themselves, the problem of pornography amongst Christian men, the ambivalent attitude we believers have towards the poor, the abandonment of the elderly... SOS! SOS! The ship's going down! Start praying your breviaries, start praying your Rosaries, give a bum $20, turn off your TVs and read your Bibles, visit the abandoned. SOS! SOS! The stuff is going to hit to fan soon! Be prepared! SOS!...

Thank you, Credo, for seeing the forest for the trees...
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