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(04-10-2010, 05:14 PM)In nomine Patris Wrote: [ -> ]And you are judging her.

How is that judging!?  She blatantly stated that the TLM is superior and the N.O. is inferior.  How is it judging to state the obvious!?  Do you think that it is opportunism to blatantly worship God in an inferior way that you yourself have admitted is inferior?  We are supposed to give God our best, not mediocrity.
maybe its all thats available
(04-10-2010, 05:26 PM)In nomine Patris Wrote: [ -> ]maybe its all thats available

Have you even been reading my posts???  If it is "all that is available," and the N.O. is a sacriligious Mass, and one suffers a distance hardship concerning the true Mass - then stay home and make a spiritual communion.  This would be worlds better than submitting to sacrilege, wouldn' it?  Also, when it comes down to it, it really isn't "all that is available" to the vast majority of Americans and Europeans.  Most will find a TLM within at least 3 or 4 hours drive.  The SSPX recommends those (like myself) who have a distance hardship to TRY and make it once a month.
(04-10-2010, 04:52 PM)JayneK Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-10-2010, 04:07 PM)Stubborn Wrote: [ -> ]The New Order is known by it's fruits and like the rotten fruits it has and continues to produce, at some point, Our Lord will see to it that it is chopped to shreds and thrown into the fire - why on earth would anyone want to support such a things as abhorrent as the NO in light of it's fruit is beyond me. 

And we could just as rightly say that the V2 and the NO are fruit of the TLM.  Every priest involved in Vatican II was ordained in and celebrated the TLM.  Every Catholic theologian they consulted at the Council attended the TLM. 

It is not the Mass that people attend that makes them sin and come up with foolish ideas.  Due to original sin, we have weakened wills and clouded intellects.  There will always be evidence of these consequences in human behaviour, no matter what Mass we have.

V2 and the abominable NOM are fruits of Modernism amongst the clergy, which in the words of Pope St. Pius X, is the synthesis of all heresies.  It is the modernist clergy that brought about through various intrigues such as the NOM to destroy all bastions of the Catholic Faith.  The TLM, which is received apostolic can only produce the Catholic Faith.  NOM on the other hand produces and confirms Modernism.

Excerpted From Pascendi Dominici Gregis (On Modernism)

1. One of the primary obligations assigned by Christ to the office divinely committed to Us of feeding the Lord's flock is that of guarding with the greatest vigilance the Deposit of the Faith delivered to the Saints, rejecting he profane novelties of words and the gainsaying of knowledge falsely so called There has never been a time when this watchfulness of the supreme pastor was not necessary to the Catholic body, for, owing to the efforts of the enemy of the human race, there have never been lacking "men speaking perverse things" (Titus 1:10), "vain talkers and seducers" (Acts 20:30), "erring and driving into error." (2 Tim. 3:13). It must, however, be confessed that these latter days have witnessed a notable increase in the number of the enemies of the Cross of Christ, who, by arts entirely new and full of deceit, are striving to destroy the vital energy of the Church, and, as far as in them lies, utterly to subvert the very Kingdom of Christ. Wherefore We may no longer keep silence, lest We should seem to fail in Our most sacred duty, and lest the kindness that, in the hope of wiser counsels, We have hietherto shown them, should be set down to lack of diligence in the discharge of Our office.

2. That We should act without delay in this matter is made imperative especially by the fact that the partisans of error are to be sought not only among the Church's open enemies; but, what is to be most dreaded and deplored, in her very bosom, and are the more mischievous the less they keep in the open. We allude, Venerable Brethren, to many who belong to the Catholic laity, and, what is much more sad, to the ranks of the priesthood itself, who, animated by a false zeal for the Church, lacking the solid safeguards of philosophy and theology, nay more, thoroughly imbued with the poisonous doctrines taught by the enemies of the Church, and lost to all sense of modesty, put themselves forward as reformers of the Church; and, forming more boldly into line of attack, assail all that is most sacred in the work of Christ, not sparing even the Person of the Divine Redeemer, whom, with sacrilegious audacity, they degrade to the condition of a simple and ordinary man.

Destruction of One True Religion
14. How far this position is removed from that of Catholic teaching! We have already seen how its fallacies have been condemned by the Vatican Council. Later on, we shall see how these errors, combined with those which we have already mentioned, open wide the way to Atheism. Here it is well to note at once that, given this doctrine of experience united with that of symbolism, every religion, even that of paganism, must be held to be true. What is to prevent such experiences from being found in any religion? In fact, that they are so is maintained by not a few. On what grounds can Modernists deny the truth of an experience affirmed by a follower of Islam? Will they claim a monopoly of true experiences for Catholics alone? Indeed, Modernists do not deny, but actually maintain, some confusedly, others frankly, that all religions are true.

[...] In the conflict between different religions, the most that Modernists can maintain is that the Catholic has more truth because it is more vivid, and that it deserves with more reason the name of Christian because it corresponds more fully with the origins of Christianity. No one will find it unreasonable that these consequences flow from the premises. But what is most amazing is that there are Catholics and priests, who, We would fain believe, abhor such enormities, and yet act as if they fully approved of them. For they lavish such praise and bestow such public honor on the teachers of these errors as to convey the belief that their admiration is not meant merely for the persons, who are perhaps not devoid of a certain merit, but rather for the sake of the errors which these persons openly profess and which they do all in their power to propagate.

43. And here we have already some of the artifices employed by Modernists to exploit their wares. What efforts do they not make to win new recruits! They seize upon professorships in the seminaries and universities, and gradually make of them chairs of pestilence. In sermons from the pulpit they disseminate their doctrines, although possibly in utterances which are veiled. In congresses they express their teachings more openly. In their social gatherings they introduce them and commend them to others. Under their own names and under pseudonyms they publish numbers of books, newspapers, reviews, and sometimes one and the same writer adopts a variety of pseudonyms to trap the incautious reader into believing in a multitude of Modernist writers. In short, with feverish activity they leave nothing untried in act, speech, and writing. And with what result? We have to deplore the spectacle of many young men, once full of promise and capable of rendering great services to the Church, now gone astray. It is also a subject of grief to Us that many others who, while they certainly do not go so far as the former, have yet been so infected by breathing a poisoned atmosphere, as to think, speak, and write with a degree of laxity which ill becomes a Catholic. They are to be found among the laity, and in the ranks of the clergy, and they are not wanting even in the last place where one might expect to meet them, in religious communities. If they treat of biblical questions, it is upon Modernist principles; if they write history, they carefully, and with ill-concealed satisfaction, drag into the light, on the plea of telling the whole truth, everything that appears to cast a stain upon the Church. Under the sway of certain a priori conceptions they destroy as far as they can the pious traditions of the people, and bring into disrespect certain relics highly venerable from their antiquity. They are possessed by the empty desire of having their names upon the lips of the public, and they know they would never succeed in this were they to say only what has always been said by all men. Meanwhile it may be that they have persuaded themselves that in all this they are really serving God and the Church. In reality they only offend both, less perhaps by their works in themselves than by the spirit in which they write, and by the encouragement they thus give to the aims of the Modernists.
(04-10-2010, 04:52 PM)JayneK Wrote: [ -> ]And we could just as rightly say that the V2 and the NO are fruit of the TLM. 


I find this one of the most disgusting statements that I have ever encountered on this or any board.
(04-10-2010, 05:15 PM)Nic Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-10-2010, 04:52 PM)JayneK Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-10-2010, 04:07 PM)Stubborn Wrote: [ -> ]The New Order is known by it's fruits and like the rotten fruits it has and continues to produce, at some point, Our Lord will see to it that it is chopped to shreds and thrown into the fire - why on earth would anyone want to support such a things as abhorrent as the NO in light of it's fruit is beyond me. 

And we could just as rightly say that the V2 and the NO are fruit of the TLM.  Every priest involved in Vatican II was ordained in and celebrated the TLM.  Every Catholic theologian they consulted at the Council attended the TLM. 

It is not the Mass that people attend that makes them sin and come up with foolish ideas.  Due to original sin, we have weakened wills and clouded intellects.  There will always be evidence of these consequences in human behaviour, no matter what Mass we have.



You don't know what happened at Vatican II.  Read what Archbishop Lefebvre has written.  There was indeed a more conservative majority, but the careful planning of the very liberal minority hijacked this council in a very wierd way.

MODERNISM = NOM = MODERNISM = ASSISI I & II

AMEN

(04-10-2010, 04:54 PM)Ex_NO Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-10-2010, 04:40 PM)JayneK Wrote: [ -> ]Ubi Petrus, ibi ecclesia. 

??? Problem:  Peter prays with voodoo gods at Assisi I & II = Jayne must also pray with voodoo gods at Faith Community.

Please provide some documentation of your claim that Peter (JPII) was doing this, preferably links that I can check online. 
(04-10-2010, 05:44 PM)JayneK Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-10-2010, 04:54 PM)Ex_NO Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-10-2010, 04:40 PM)JayneK Wrote: [ -> ]Ubi Petrus, ibi ecclesia. 

??? Problem:  Peter prays with voodoo gods at Assisi I & II = Jayne must also pray with voodoo gods at Faith Community.

Please provide some documentation of your claim that Peter (JPII) was doing this, preferably links that I can check online. 

Google Assisi I
(04-10-2010, 05:48 PM)Ex_NO Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-10-2010, 05:44 PM)JayneK Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-10-2010, 04:54 PM)Ex_NO Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-10-2010, 04:40 PM)JayneK Wrote: [ -> ]Ubi Petrus, ibi ecclesia. 

??? Problem:  Peter prays with voodoo gods at Assisi I & II = Jayne must also pray with voodoo gods at Faith Community.

Please provide some documentation of your claim that Peter (JPII) was doing this, preferably links that I can check online. 

Google Assisi I

What should we make of Assisi

JP2 Praises Voodoo

JP2 Meets Voodoo Priest at Assisi



[Image: 356_Babgladesh01.jpg]  Hindhu mess
[Image: 356_Babgladesh02.jpg]  Hindhu mess
[Image: 256_JPII_ThaiBuddhist.jpg]  JP2 with Boodha incarnate
[Image: 169_BuddhaAssisi05.JPG] Boodha on the Altar at Assisi
[Image: 169_BuddhaAssisi03.JPG] More Booodha
[Image: 123_JPIIHinduBlessingr01.jpg] Hindhu blessing
[Image: 070_Assisi_Budism_02.jpg]  Assisi
[Image: 075_MassPhilippine.jpg]
[Image: assisi.jpg]
[Image: assisi2.jpg]
[Image: 001_JPIIAnimist.jpg]
(04-10-2010, 06:08 PM)Ex_NO Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-10-2010, 05:48 PM)Ex_NO Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-10-2010, 05:44 PM)JayneK Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-10-2010, 04:54 PM)Ex_NO Wrote: [ -> ]??? Problem:  Peter prays with voodoo gods at Assisi I & II = Jayne must also pray with voodoo gods at Faith Community.

Please provide some documentation of your claim that Peter (JPII) was doing this, preferably links that I can check online. 

Google Assisi I

What should we make of Assisi

JP2 Praises Voodoo

JP2 Meets Voodoo Priest at Assisi

The second one of these is the only one that gives the actual words of Pope John Paul II rather than giving a second-hand account of his actions.  What it does, however, is take a part of a speech out of context.  It takes the opening of a speech in which the Pope tries to establish some rapport and common ground with his listeners before speaking to them of Christianity and the Gospel. (This is a very good preaching technique and there are example of St. Paul using it in the Bible.) Here is the next paragraph after the part they quoted:
Quote:3. Vos frères chrétiens apprécient, comme vous, tout ce qui est beau dans ces traditions, car ils sont, comme vous, des fils du Bénin. Mais ils sont également reconnaissants à leurs « ancêtres dans la foi », depuis les Apôtres jusqu’aux missionnaires, de leur avoir apporté l’Evangile. Ces missionnaires leur ont fait connaître la « Bonne Nouvelle » que Dieu est Père et s’est rendu proche des hommes par son Fils, Jésus-Christ, porteur d’un joyeux message de libération.

Si nous remontons plus loin dans l’histoire, nous constatons que les ancêtres de ces missionnaires venus d’Europe avaient eux-mêmes reçu l’Evangile alors qu’ils avaient déjà une religion et un culte. En accueillant le message de Dieu, ils n’ont rien perdu. Au contraire, ils ont gagné de connaître Jésus-Christ et de devenir, en lui, par le baptême, fils et filles du Dieu d’Amour et de Miséricorde.

Perhaps you can find an English translation for this.  He is talking about the Apostles and missionaries bringing the Gospel to various places such as Benin.  He says that those who accepted the Good News did not lose anything from their culture, they only gained knowledge that God the Father drew near to men through His Son Jesus Christ.  He says that by baptism people become sons and daughters of the God of Love and Mercy. 

In other words, he was not worshipping with them and only praising them to the extent that it was leading into preaching to them about Jesus Christ.  The article you directed me to was very misleading in its portrayal of events.  Nor do the pictures you showed support your claims.  They showed people in clothing from other countries participating in Masses.  I saw no reason to think those people were not Catholics.  There is no rule that Catholics only wear Western clothing.  There were also some pictures of the Pope talking to people of other religions.  There isn't anything wrong with talking to people, greeting them, being friendly, etc. even if they are not Catholic. 

Anyhow you said that he prayed to voodoo gods and none of the "evidence" you supplied supports this claim.  Do you have the text of the prayer?  A report from a credible first-hand witness?  Linking to other people making the claims that you are does not really qualify as documentation.
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