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the trent mass would be infinetly more humble before God, and much fuller in symbolism, but we cant say it in english there is no allowance for it in the rubrics of the mass and I dont know if there is even a possiblillity to do a misle for an exclusive latin mass since the novas ordo is the regular form now.  Lucky though the new english misle has a more traditional take on what the responses are like and with your spirit, and the our father, it is a big step to the right direction. though it may give more ammo to the non latinists saying well does it matter if we say it in latin they are the same words in english as latin and if it were in latin no one would understand it.  but we know thats bull, if the people were forced to they could learn an ewtn style mass with some latin in it, there are nine responses to learn I dont think that is too hard even for someone who is loseing memory if it is in the songbook/missle as we commonly have now.

signed Jeremy L
Agreed.

no one would understand it

Oh, whatever. We do know that's bull. Why? No one understands it now. By it I mean the sacrifice of the Mass and the real, true and substantial presence of Christ in the sacrament.  But I think this has more to do with the form of the Mass than with Latin versus the vernacular.

the bishops were probably forced to translate Caesar's commentaries on the Gallic wars in second year high school Latin, as i was.  i hated that part of Latin.  Catholic and public school kids both had to do that translation and it was long and b-o-r-i-n-g to 15 year-olds.

"Cleopatra" with Elizabeth Taylor came out that year and there's a scene where she and Caesar are lolling about on couches eating dinner, Roman style, and she says to Caesar that she's been enjoying his commentaries on the Gallic wars.  my friends and i laughed at that line. 

do you suppose all the girls told Julius that?  :laughing:
(04-19-2010, 05:07 PM)WanderingPenitent Wrote: [ -> ]Too many bishops are like this, but His Holiness is changing that. Every new bishop he has promoted to more influential positions tends to be pro-Latin, or at the very least not discouraging about it.

WP - this is a very interesting statement which surprised me when I first read it. Then I noticed your qualification in "more influential positions". Well, maybe ...


I would really like to hear more from you or anyone else who can comment on this. Or if anyone knows a good link to an article about the Holy Father''s choice of Bishops, I would appreciate it ...

A very, very important topic I think ...
Our new bishop in Springfield, Illinois, Thomas Paprocki, was just appointed a couple weeks ago.  One piece of information on the net about him is that he received some sort of honor from the Latin Liturgy Association for his support of them over the years.  They encourage the use of Latin in either Mass, so they're not TLM-only, but apparently he's very pro-Latin.

I think everyone (including his opponents) considers Pope Benedict's episcopal choices to be very orthodox, and being orthodox pretty much means being pro-Latin by definition.  After all, even Vatican II stresses the importance of Latin in the liturgy.
We just got a new archbishop in Toronto a few years ago. He seems theologically orthodox and supportive of the TLM.  He invited FSSP to start a parish although they ended up leaving after a while.
I would rather a bishop who loves the traditional Mass than Latin.

Prayers > language.
I agree, but while our last bishop allowed the Latin Mass, I don't think he was interested in it himself, partly because he didn't know Latin.  A certain familiarity with the language is a prerequisite for the TLM, I'd think.  Gotta start somewhere.
Thats just it, many of the new ones speak three langages but its not latin, its usually spanish and or french or something like that.  and how are the new bishops barely knowlegable about latin supposed to be able to communicate when they become cardnals which many eventualy will as the older ones get too old to be elected pope? I know there is traslating software but it only goes so far not like having the common language. 

I tried to get two priests to teach me latin, one said he had not the time with all his other obligations, and the other said it would not be something I would be able to commit to from such a long distance to the rectory were the local fssp priest Father Gabbet stays.

He said try rosetta stone, I am like I dont want to pay the kind of money and I could be taught better by a human who can teach me one on one and tell me stuff about the pronunciation and shortcuts that a computer can not.

signed Jeremy L Churches of Fort Wayne
(05-01-2010, 04:28 PM)churchesoffortwayne Wrote: [ -> ]He said try rosetta stone, I am like I dont want to pay the kind of money and I could be taught better by a human who can teach me one on one and tell me stuff about the pronunciation and shortcuts that a computer can not.

Jeremy,
Rosetta Stone is probably not a good choice.  There are some threads in The Divine Office, Ecclesiastical Latin, & Sacred Music about this.  Also you might find something helpful at:http://www.fshcm.com/english.html
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