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(04-29-2010, 01:44 PM)Petertherock Wrote: [ -> ]The Catholic Church is still around giggles, it's just not part of the NO Church.

Ubi Peter ibi Ecclesia est. That is the real presence of our Lord in the world through His mystical body the jurisdictional hierarchical Church. And outside Him there is no life.

In the first 500 years of the Christianity the Creed was the center of the faith, than until around 1200 the Church, then the Eucharist and since the end of the 19th century (Vatican I) again the center is the Church the mystical body of Christ, where He is the head and he reign through his vicar the pope.

No matter how loudly a group cries otherwise this is the tradition.
(04-30-2010, 07:00 AM)devotedknuckles Wrote: [ -> ]yes but God gave you a noddle for a reason. if you need to know and don't already i am not a mormon. and neither is Our Lady. i am using that term the way she used it. so is she a heretic then? mormons also use the word jesus Christ. should we stop using that lest some see us as mormons? the list can go on and i know shit about mormons but im not surprised Catholics and prods and Mormons have a common language that can interchange. sacrament is another prods use that term too. also dont let google be your noodle!!

In what part of the Fatima message did the Blessed Virgin use the word "apostasy"?
“In the Third Secret it is foretold, among other things, that the great apostasy in the Church will begin at the top.”

Cardinal Mario Luigi Ciappi, Pope John Paul II's personal papal theologian, quoted in the journal Catholic, March 2002
(07-04-2010, 10:18 PM)Ex_NO Wrote: [ -> ] “In the Third Secret it is foretold, among other things, that the great apostasy in the Church will begin at the top.”Cardinal Mario Luigi Ciappi, Pope John Paul II's personal papal theologian, quoted in the journal Catholic, March 2002

But that's mere speculation and not a quote from the Blessed Virgin.  I was looking for a direct quote from Our Lady, using the term "apostasy," as was insinuated.
(07-04-2010, 10:27 PM)DJR Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-04-2010, 10:18 PM)Ex_NO Wrote: [ -> ] “In the Third Secret it is foretold, among other things, that the great apostasy in the Church will begin at the top.”Cardinal Mario Luigi Ciappi, Pope John Paul II's personal papal theologian, quoted in the journal Catholic, March 2002

But that's mere speculation and not a quote from the Blessed Virgin.  I was looking for a direct quote from Our Lady, using the term "apostasy," as was insinuated.

Then, you have a lot of research to do. No one can do it for you.  To understand the message of Our Lady of Fatima, you must study it, and ask the BVM to assist you.
(07-04-2010, 10:34 PM)Ex_NO Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-04-2010, 10:27 PM)DJR Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-04-2010, 10:18 PM)Ex_NO Wrote: [ -> ] “In the Third Secret it is foretold, among other things, that the great apostasy in the Church will begin at the top.”Cardinal Mario Luigi Ciappi, Pope John Paul II's personal papal theologian, quoted in the journal Catholic, March 2002
But that's mere speculation and not a quote from the Blessed Virgin.  I was looking for a direct quote from Our Lady, using the term "apostasy," as was insinuated.
Then, you have a lot of research to do. No one can do it for you.  To understand the message of Our Lady of Fatima, you must study it, and ask the BVM to assist you.

I've been studying the Fatima message since I was a teenager, perhaps before you were born, as I was born when Pius XII was pope.  My point was that DK said that the Blessed Virgin used the term "great apostasy" in the message of Fatima, and I wanted to see the exact quote where he got that knowledge.  To date, it has never been publicly presented, and none of us know whether that term was ever used by the Blessed Virgin.  However, DK may know something most of us don't, which is why I asked.  What you posted was the typical Vatican bureaucrat stuff I've been reading for decades, with nothing that discloses the actual words of Our Lady.
(07-05-2010, 09:41 PM)DJR Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-04-2010, 10:34 PM)Ex_NO Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-04-2010, 10:27 PM)DJR Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-04-2010, 10:18 PM)Ex_NO Wrote: [ -> ] “In the Third Secret it is foretold, among other things, that the great apostasy in the Church will begin at the top.”Cardinal Mario Luigi Ciappi, Pope John Paul II's personal papal theologian, quoted in the journal Catholic, March 2002
But that's mere speculation and not a quote from the Blessed Virgin.  I was looking for a direct quote from Our Lady, using the term "apostasy," as was insinuated.
Then, you have a lot of research to do. No one can do it for you.  To understand the message of Our Lady of Fatima, you must study it, and ask the BVM to assist you.

I've been studying the Fatima message since I was a teenager, perhaps before you were born, as I was born when Pius XII was pope.  My point was that DK said that the Blessed Virgin used the term "great apostasy" in the message of Fatima, and I wanted to see the exact quote where he got that knowledge.  To date, it has never been publicly presented, and none of us know whether that term was ever used by the Blessed Virgin.  However, DK may know something most of us don't, which is why I asked.  What you posted was the typical Vatican bureaucrat stuff I've been reading for decades, with nothing that discloses the actual words of Our Lady.

Looks like you have done your homework; I do not think I have much to add.  The contents of the third part of secret are indeed subject to much speculation, but I agree with those who hold the opinion that it concerns the crisis of faith within the Church and this is corroborated by Pius XII.
(04-28-2010, 01:54 PM)Petertherock Wrote: [ -> ]I have decided that the NO Church is not part of the Catholic Church.

How could it? The majority of Masses are invalid, a great deal of priests are invalidly ordained, and explicit heresy is preached openly in most of the western world. It lacks the necessary unity of Faith, Sacraments, and Authority. It is not Catholic.

But how do you delineate between the New Order Church and the Roman Catholic Church? Is a validly-ordained priest who believes in everything taught by the Council of Trent, offers the real Mass, AND is given faculties by a diocesan bishop; is he part of the Roman Church or the New Order Church? The Pope has valid orders, but he teaches the condemned error of religious liberty. Is he not Pope? What about John Paul II, who taught the heresy of universal salvation. Was he not Pope?

My point is, the New Order Church is all mixed up with the Roman Church, so you can't make sweeping generalizations about the hierarchy and the Pope. You can't incinerate a leper in order to rid him of his leprosy. You can't get rid of a man's headache by denying that he has a head.
(04-30-2010, 12:00 AM)JayneK Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-29-2010, 11:48 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: [ -> ]Guess Our lady of fatima is a heretic eh janek  is that right jesse?
sip sip

It does not seem likely.  However, the first pages of google hits for "great apostasy" that I looked at indicate this term is favoured by heretics and schismatics for referring to the Catholic Church.  While this does not apply to Our Lady, most people using this term appear to want to reject the authority of the Church. 

Is Saint Paul a heretic for using it?
(07-05-2010, 09:41 PM)DJR Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-04-2010, 10:34 PM)Ex_NO Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-04-2010, 10:27 PM)DJR Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-04-2010, 10:18 PM)Ex_NO Wrote: [ -> ] “In the Third Secret it is foretold, among other things, that the great apostasy in the Church will begin at the top.”Cardinal Mario Luigi Ciappi, Pope John Paul II's personal papal theologian, quoted in the journal Catholic, March 2002
But that's mere speculation and not a quote from the Blessed Virgin.  I was looking for a direct quote from Our Lady, using the term "apostasy," as was insinuated.
Then, you have a lot of research to do. No one can do it for you.  To understand the message of Our Lady of Fatima, you must study it, and ask the BVM to assist you.

I've been studying the Fatima message since I was a teenager, perhaps before you were born, as I was born when Pius XII was pope.  My point was that DK said that the Blessed Virgin used the term "great apostasy" in the message of Fatima, and I wanted to see the exact quote where he got that knowledge.  To date, it has never been publicly presented, and none of us know whether that term was ever used by the Blessed Virgin.  However, DK may know something most of us don't, which is why I asked.  What you posted was the typical Vatican bureaucrat stuff I've been reading for decades, with nothing that discloses the actual words of Our Lady.

You are focusing too much on the term, rather than the message; the fact that the BVM may not had used that exact term doesn't mean that the message does not deal with what that term represents or signifies.
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