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Full Version: Francisco Franco was a hero.
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(04-30-2010, 10:30 PM)winoblue1 Wrote: [ -> ]Of course slack needs to be given because he was suppresing dangerous communists, anarchists and anti-Catholics, so one has to react to violence with violence.

No, one certainly does NOT have to react to violence with violence.

Matthew 5:38-39
You have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth. But I say to you not to resist evil: but if one strike thee on thy right cheek, turn to him also the other.

I'm not suggesting that there are never times when we should physically defend our faith, but I do believe one of the reasons the Lord said this is because when we resort to violence it becomes incredibly easy for us to lose virtue and sin.  I like the example of St. Clair, protecting her convent with a pyx and the Blessed Sacrament instead of a sword.

Pax,
Jesse

(04-30-2010, 10:33 PM)PeterII Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-30-2010, 10:27 PM)Jesse Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-30-2010, 10:24 PM)PeterII Wrote: [ -> ]Killing an atheist converts them instantly. 

Witty.  Too bad that conversion is for their eternal damnation instead of their eternal salvation.   I'm grateful some well-meaning Catholic didn't kill me to convert me instantly.  After all, it is the most efficient way, eh?

Pax,
Jesse

I doubt you were murdering priests or raping nuns either though.  

No, but Saul approved of the murder of St. Stephen.
(04-30-2010, 10:41 PM)Jesse Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-30-2010, 10:33 PM)PeterII Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-30-2010, 10:27 PM)Jesse Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-30-2010, 10:24 PM)PeterII Wrote: [ -> ]Killing an atheist converts them instantly. 

Witty.  Too bad that conversion is for their eternal damnation instead of their eternal salvation.   I'm grateful some well-meaning Catholic didn't kill me to convert me instantly.  After all, it is the most efficient way, eh?

Pax,
Jesse

I doubt you were murdering priests or raping nuns either though.  

No, but Saul approved of the murder of St. Stephen.

He's lucky God got him before Franco did. 
(04-30-2010, 10:45 PM)PeterII Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-30-2010, 10:41 PM)Jesse Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-30-2010, 10:33 PM)PeterII Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-30-2010, 10:27 PM)Jesse Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-30-2010, 10:24 PM)PeterII Wrote: [ -> ]Killing an atheist converts them instantly. 

Witty.  Too bad that conversion is for their eternal damnation instead of their eternal salvation.   I'm grateful some well-meaning Catholic didn't kill me to convert me instantly.  After all, it is the most efficient way, eh?

Pax,
Jesse

I doubt you were murdering priests or raping nuns either though.  

No, but Saul approved of the murder of St. Stephen.

He's lucky God got him before Franco did. 

Heh  :laughing:

ETA:  And we are certainly lucky because of that, too
Herr_Mannelig Wrote:
Quote:He instituted a state religion and banned languages other than Spanish with equal ease.

As you can now see, the statement was showing that a laudable action was just part of a larger campaign, which may not be so laudable. The motivation, I think, for both actions are the same: nationalism and power, not piety.

Uh-huh. I've heard more than enough Henry VIII comparisons of Franco to smell a rotten banana. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but regardless, your arbitrary questioning of Franco's faith and devotion is based on zero tangible evidence. Did he have political ambitions? Sure. Your point being ... ? The fact remains that he guided Spain out of a left-wing bloodbath into a period of unquestioned fidelity to Holy Mother Church.

Herr_Mannelig Wrote:My statement was showing that it only lasted while he was able to maintain power and he saved nothing.

Nothing? Between July of 1936  to April of 1939 (a paltry three years) Spanish reds had murdered over 20% of the Spanish Catholic clergy. In THREE years of semi-organized governance! Franco and his armies stopped this diabolical force from seizing power in Spain. One need not ponder long to envision the utter carnage that would've ensued had Franco failed launching Spain into an anti-clerical/Catholic massacre.

Franco is truly a hero, pal, and merits the esteem of all Catholics.

In Corde Regis Christi,
Joshua
As I mentioned before, I know little about Franco.  I got this from Wikipedia, so who really knows the accuracy of the details, but I think it's wonderful that Franco did this:

Quote:During the entire war, especially after 1942, the Spanish borders were more or less kept open for Jewish refugees from Vichy France and Nazi-occupied territories in Europe. Franco's diplomats extended their diplomatic protection over Sephardic Jews in Hungary, Slovakia  and the Balkans. Spain was a safe haven for all Jewish refugees and antisemitism  was not official policy under the Franco regime. In 1940 alone roughly 40,000 Jewish refugees found safe heaven in Spain. Overall, per some estimates, during World War II Franco's policies saved lives of almost 200,000 European Jews.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_F...rld_War_II

Pax,
Jesse
Jo estic a favor de Franco.

He did what he thought he had to do, in the time that he had to do it.  In hind-sight, we may have done things differently, but we're not Franco, and we weren't there.

...also, when did anyone say that Franco was perfect?
(05-02-2010, 01:59 AM)Texican Wrote: [ -> ]...also, when did anyone say that Franco was perfect?

Those who cannot see what I'm trying to say.

I see your point, but sometimes, you have to take the good with the bad.  This may be one of those times.
(05-02-2010, 02:05 AM)Texican Wrote: [ -> ]I see your point, but sometimes, you have to take the good with the bad.  This may be one of those times.

Well, his actions didn't have any long term benefits, so I think it was all for naught.
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