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I would appreciate some solid documentation from anyone who could answer the following questions:

    I have been in attendance at a TLM that was, up until over a year ago, only a low mass and celebrated once a month. Now that it is every Sunday, our priest has begun celebrating a hybrid high mass/low mass. I have  always been under the impression that is is manifestly a liturgical abuse. Let me give you a few details.....

1.) There is no "Asperges" or "Vidi Aquam" before the sung mass.

2.) Fr. sings and wants us to sing the Kyrie, Gloria, Credo, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei.

3.) He sings some parts of the Mass (Dominus Vobiscum.......Sursum Corda.....etc.......) but he does not chant the Epistle or Gospel.

4.) We do not use incense.

These are just a few of the things I can think of off the top of my head. If you are familiar with where I can find the most recent congregation of rites detailing the proper celebration of the TLM (1962 Missal) and the proper distinctions between Low Mass and High Mass, I would be grateful......


I have the Music Sacra documents from St. John Cantius but I would like to have the actual document in its original form for added gravitas.

Thanks.

1.) That's correct in the less solemn form of Sung Mass, i.e. without incense. (Source: Fortescue, page 136.)

2.) That's good and traditional. (Source: Pope St. Pius X, motu proprio Tra le Sollecitudini #3; See also below*.)

3.) That's wrong. (Source: Fortescue, page 136.)

4.) That's fine also, that makes it the less solemn form of Sung Mass. (Source: Ibid.)

*Here's the SSPX church of St. Nicolas-du-Chardennet in Paris, where the faithful sing the ordinary:

OK....let me clarify a few things....

The document from Adoremus that you sent the link from was from an encyclical from 1903......The Sacred Congregation of Rites (1958) which was the most recent instruction on the 1962 Missal is what we ought to go by for a low mass and a high mass.

What do you make of these documents I found from St. John Cantius, one of the oldest, continually operating TLM parishes in the country?.....

http://musicasacra.com/pdf/highmass.pdf

http://musicasacra.com/pdf/lowmass.pdf

Could you please tell me who Fortescue is?

Also, I didn't mean to suggest that at a High Mass the people should not sing the Kyrie, Gloria, Credo, Agnus Dei, etc.....but that no one really knows if the Mass is a High Mass or a Low Mass.....If that's the case, why does the Church make a distinct difference between the two? There ought to be NO chanting by the priests OR by the people of the Kyrie, Gloria, Credo, Sanctus, Agnus Dei in a low mass......

Also, the Asperges (or Vidi Aquam), to the best of my knowledge, is ALWAYS to be done on the Principal Sunday Mass....Since we only have one Mass in the parish, we can either do a high mass or low mass.....If it's a high mass, I believe it ought to be done since it's the only high mass celebrated that day.....

I had the privilege to attend the FSSP OLF Chapel in Pequannock, NJ for the first time today.  It was the 5:00 p.m.  low mass.

I looked in the Latin to English translation booklet, and even though the prayers said kneeling at the altar after mass were supposed to be omitted in the 1962 Missal, we all still prayed them outloud. I'm assuming they are only omitted at the end of High Mass?? Or are these prayers said only at the discretion of the priest??
What are the correct rules on this??

At any rate, Im glad they weren't omitted and the mass seemed more edifying to me then the Diocesan High Mass I usually attend...Strange. ???

It's omitted in the High Mass....Only the Low Mass has those prayers at the end of Mass....Are you sure it didn't say omitted "after" 1962?

Fortescue is Fr. Adrian Fortescue, a recognized expert on the rubrics.  His book, Ceremonies of the Roman Rite Described, is widely used to settle questions on the rubrics.  It has continued to be updated since his death, but, to the best of my knowledge, he gets the credit for being the original author.  I know wikipedia is not also the best source, but here is a link to the information they have about him : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Fortescue_(priest)
The Leonine prayers are only said at the end of a Low Mass.  They are now optional, but many, if not most, TLM communities continue to use them.  Since they are optional, my guess is that it would be up to the priest.

(05-02-2010, 08:09 PM)sfgiants1962 Wrote: [ -> ]Also, I didn't mean to suggest that at a High Mass the people should not sing the Kyrie, Gloria, Credo, Agnus Dei, etc.....but that no one really knows if the Mass is a High Mass or a Low Mass.....

It sounds to me that you're describing a sung Mass with a few liturgical errors, not a low Mass.

He may not chant the Scripture readings because he thinks it's too hard. There is, however, the legitimate option of having the Epistle read (whether sung or spoken) by a lector. He still ought to sing the Gospel unless there is a deacon to do it for him.

Quote:The document from Adoremus that you sent the link from was from an encyclical from 1903......The Sacred Congregation of Rites (1958) which was the most recent instruction on the 1962 Missal is what we ought to go by for a low mass and a high mass.

Tra le sollecitudini is still the foundational document (a motu proprio, not an encyclical) where the revival of Gregorian chant is concerned, including how it's used in the liturgy.

(05-02-2010, 08:16 PM)sfgiants1962 Wrote: [ -> ]It's omitted in the High Mass....Only the Low Mass has those prayers at the end of Mass....Are you sure it didn't say omitted "after" 1962?

You are right. I think it did say "after" 1962.

(05-02-2010, 06:38 PM)sfgiants1962 Wrote: [ -> ]I would appreciate some solid documentation from anyone who could answer the following questions:

     I have been in attendance at a TLM that was, up until over a year ago, only a low mass and celebrated once a month. Now that it is every Sunday, our priest has begun celebrating a hybrid high mass/low mass. I have  always been under the impression that is is manifestly a liturgical abuse. Let me give you a few details.....

1.) There is no "Asperges" or "Vidi Aquam" before the sung mass.

The Asperges is not strictly speaking obligatory, but ought not be omitted, except for a just reason. It is always omitted when a liturgical or para-liturgical rite precedes the principal Mass (e.g. the Blessing of Palms on Palm Sunday). It may only be sung before the "Principal Mass" of the Sunday. So, only once. It may not be duplicated unless local custom allows. This follows SRC Decrees 3268 and 4051.

The principal Mass is the Mass which fulfills the obligations of the religious community (in the case of a religious order's). This would usually be the Mass immediately after Terce on Sundays and Major Feasts (and after Prime on ferias and minor feasts). In a Parish the interpretation is more widely open, however, in a parish where both the Novus Ordo and the Traditional Mass are offered, even if the Traditional Mass is a Sung Mass, if it is sparsely attended, or if it is tucked into an odd time spot, it would clearly not be the principal Mass.

In your particular situation, as clarified, the Asperges should be used for a Sung Mass, but omitted for a Low Mass (what you described is a "sung" Low Mass, so it would be omitted).

(05-02-2010, 06:38 PM)sfgiants1962 Wrote: [ -> ]2.) Fr. sings and wants us to sing the Kyrie, Gloria, Credo, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei.

That is perfectly fine, even at a "Recited Mass". Anything which could be sung at a Solemn Mass may be sung at any other form of the Mass. It may also be recited. At a "Dialog Mass" version of the Low Mass, the faithful may recite these with the priest, so they may also sing these as well.

The principle of reciting these things in a "Dialog Mass" is found in many places, but very clearly in De Musica Sacra (a decree of the SRC from 1958). The principle of singing these is derived from the Solemn Mass itself, where all public prayers, hymns and the like are sung.

(05-02-2010, 06:38 PM)sfgiants1962 Wrote: [ -> ]3.) He sings some parts of the Mass (Dominus Vobiscum.......Sursum Corda.....etc.......) but he does not chant the Epistle or Gospel.

This is permissible in a Low Mass, but not at a Sung Mass. At a Sung Mass the Epistle and lessons may be recited, but not the Gospel, so in order to conform this more with a Sung Mass, he ought to sing the Gospel unless there is a just reason not to. In this "sung Low Mass" as we could call it, he is not violating any rules by reciting both.

If you were to have the Propers sung (and thus have a proper Sung Mass), he could recite or sing the Epistle and would need to sing at least the Gospel. Additionally, no vernacular hymns could be used during the Mass (Processional and Recessional are not during the Mass).

Such a "hybrid" sung Low Mass may be very useful and good when it is impossible to have a decent schola, to help the faithful participate in the Mass (through their singing). Low Masses where the faithful sung hymns were common in Germany, and are perfectly permissible, so if the priest wants to have the Ordinary sung, then that's clearly permissible.

If it is possible to have a schola and a Sung Mass, there ought to be a good reason not to do that, in favor of this hybrid.

(05-02-2010, 06:38 PM)sfgiants1962 Wrote: [ -> ]4.) We do not use incense.

Incense is not required even at a Sung Mass, only at a Solemn Mass, however, it is permitted at a Sung Mass. The use of incense is forbidden at a Low Mass. The rule of thumb is the Propers. If the Propers are sung (in any way, in standard chant, in psalm tone or even recto tono) then incense may be used. The use of incense requires at least an extra server, as its use requires one of the acolytes to perform other duties (removing the book and then replacing it), so there are a minimum of three servers needed.

(05-02-2010, 06:38 PM)sfgiants1962 Wrote: [ -> ]2.) Fr. sings and wants us to sing the Kyrie, Gloria, Credo, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei.

That should be done by the schola or choir only and not the faithful in the pews. Dialogue Mass with the laity is disturbing abuse.