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When I reverted to the faith I went through a long period of trying to find empirical evidence for the faith but the best I could ever come up with is "well, I don't know it's true but it's atleast a justified belief". This Kierkegaardian idea of a leap of faith, following Christ into the unknown and believing something despite a lack of evidence has always been pretty big for me. The question was recently posed to me "Why leap towards Christ? Why not Allah or Krishna? After all Islam and Hinduism are just as internally consistent as Christianity." The only real reply I could make was to appeal to some interior attraction to Christianity but I found this pretty lacking as it's all relative. I'm aware that Catholic's believe faith is a supernatural grace infused into the soul but the extent to which faith is needed to accept certain doctrines seems to be pretty contested. Faith is believing something because God's authority declares it so. But where does our belief that God's authority is exercised by the Catholic Church come in? Is it supported by evidence or is that too a matter of faith. This is why I could never understand St. Augustine's comment "I would not believe the gospels if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so" as the authority of the Church seems, to me atleast, to be based on scriptural passages so Augstine's view seems circular. To what extent do you believe that a "leap of faith" has been required in your acceptance of Christianity?

Edit: The above is a bit of a rant so I thought I'd list the two key questions

1) Faith is believing something because God's authority declares it so. But where does our belief that God's authority is exercised by the Catholic Church come in? Is it supported by evidence or is that too a matter of faith. With reference to St. Augustine's quote about the credibility of scripture.
2) To what extent do you believe that a "leap of faith" has been required in your acceptance of Christianity?
This is a good topic and I look forward to hearing what people have to say.
(05-17-2010, 11:42 AM)verenaerin Wrote:Quid est veritas?


What you are asking about is faith. Faith is a gift from God. It isn't something you can figure out, like a math equation.

My 0.02 is to just ask Jesus. Tell Him what you are doing. That you are seeking the truth. You suspect you may have found it in Him. Ask Him for the gift of faith to enlighten your mind to see and recognize the truth.

I am sure you will find your answers. Jesus loves you very much and is waiting for you.  :)

Oh, thanks but I'm already a Catholic  :laughing: I just think this is a very interesting topic that I could do with learning more about.
Pantheism is failed because the concept of more then one God is ludicrious since from all the tales I've read they fight among eachother,they even die.Which God can not do.The Idea in More then one infinite is false because it is contrary to logic,since if there was more then one infinite all-powerful God he wouldn't be Infinite or All-powerful.The rational mind always goes to the singular.Try it?Try to imagine more then one Infinite,All-powerful,all-good God? Disclaimer:The Tri-une God is a single God.

Ask yourself:Can God die? That will narrow your list of Possible true Religions severly

The belief in a unknown God is false since we have prophets,such as Moses and Isaiah

Atheism: Concept of the Big Bang (A Catholic Priest's "Theory") It is impossible for many reasons
*It expects us to believe that a tiny compressed mass that had no form suddenly exploded(Without time),causing billions upon billions of Stars and planets,
*It expects us to believe that formless energy becomes Matter all by itself
*It expects us to believe that perfect order can be a accident,a flawed concept
*The answer to how can I Humans exist?Answer usually is :By Chance.

*Problem with the concept of Chance is the chance has to be from over a trillion different senerios that could have been.Logic in itself says that Order can not be created by chance.As much as if you dump a billion marbles all over the world they would create a straight  line

*Matter can not be created nor destroyed according to science,thus everything much have already been natural (Concept of decay must be fully and totally forgotten) or there was something to make the matter I.E God

If the big bang in false,so is evolution.though I could give many reasons against it

Ok,now we are down to the concept of a one true God,which religion is true? Is it Judaism,Christianity or islam

Judaism declared a messiah,a messiah that is to be called  Almighty God,Eternal Father and the Prince of peace,they declared he will be of the seed of David,who is of the line of Jesse,who is of the line of Judah who is of the line of Jacob and Isacc and Abraham.They declared he will be a messiah who will be killed for the sake of the people's sins.It says he will ride into the city on an ass.We see countless prophecies that is fulfilled in the Christ,try looking at a "Time Chart" the messiah had to have come before the destruction of the Second temple.Jesus Christ is the fullfillment.while while Islam declares the whole of the Torah and the Gospel to be ultimately wrong and currupt.We know the torah is true because it held prophecies that were fullfilled,the Gospel fulfilled those prophecies and even made some of their own that came true.Islam has no true prophecy and only a bunch of Mimickry from the Torah and the bible,even taken from books that were not canon like the Infancy gospel of Thomas which has Jesus "Speaking from the cribe".Pretty much Islam is relient only on itself,claiming to be the fullfillment of the torah and gospel but denying them both

How can the Catholic faith be the true faith?
*And you are "Rock" and upon this rock I will build my church
*I give you the keys to loose or to bind (Authoritve power)
*Whoever sins you forgive stand forgiven,who ever sins you do not forgive are retained

Three examples that are ultimately lost in Protestant faith,The Orthodox do not hold that Peter,who was given the name Rock is the head,though they believe everything else that the church has always tought.The Catholic church has been shown by countless generations of priests,Bishops,Holy men and their writings to be a continous truth.Such as St.Ambrose's "Ubi Petrus Ibi Ergo Eclessia" where is Peter there is the church,Peter gave the ultimate bishopric to his seat in Rome,the Bishop of Rome is the Unifier of all who claim they are "{Catholic"

These are simply common sense but I could go into historical and Scientific proof if you would like?

Faith is not without knowing the truth,Faith is believing the truth will come to pass
Strictly speaking, I do not believe that leaps of faith are needed for one to become Christian. Certainly they happen but I don't believe they're necessary for one to arrive at faith and I think Thomas would agree.
(05-17-2010, 12:43 PM)Walty Wrote: [ -> ]Strictly speaking, I do not believe that leaps of faith are needed for one to become Christian. Certainly they happen but I don't believe they're necessary for one to arrive at faith and I think Thomas would agree.

Thomas Aquanis right?
Haha,He is awesome
(05-17-2010, 12:40 PM)St.Ambrose Wrote: [ -> ]Ask yourself:Can God die?

Yes, indeed, He can and did, and good thing, too, or we'd all be screwed  :)

Though I know what you meant...

Pax,
Jesse
Ambrose, by "pantheism" did you mean polytheism?
(05-17-2010, 01:11 PM)Jesse Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-17-2010, 12:40 PM)St.Ambrose Wrote: [ -> ]Ask yourself:Can God die?

Yes, indeed, He can and did, and good thing, too, or we'd all be screwed  :)

Though I know what you meant...

Pax,
Jesse

SLAP SELF IN THE FACE! : Should have NOT have asked that question to Catholics LOL,Our Crucified Lord have Mercy on us.

Ok,Rephrased:Can God's Spiritually die.
(05-17-2010, 01:14 PM)Walty Wrote: [ -> ]Ambrose, by "pantheism" did you mean polytheism?

Perhaps,I meant what the Ancient Roman and Greek believed

Though if it is Pantheism,I need to also include Polytheism in the mix lol.
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