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I know there are a number of people who have their opinions of Fr. Gruner, et al, but I think he has a huge number of valid questions concerning the Vatican and their truth about the Fatima secrets. His Apostolate and a couple of others recently had a gathering about these things and here are some very interesting developments resulting from those events:

Our Lady's Electronic Newsletter: May 2010
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Fatima Challenge Rocks Rome;
Pope Says Third Secret Unfolding Now

      Our Lady's Apostolate brought its message, or rather the Message of Fatima, to Rome, to the doorstep of the Vatican. And the Vatican listened.

      For five days, from May 3 to May 7, the world's foremost experts on Fatima met at the Ergife Hotel, just 10 minutes from the Vatican. Each day began with Masses and a Rosary to request Our Lord's and Our Lady's blessing and guidance before the talks and discussions proceeded.

      And each day, the force of The Fatima Challenge gathered momentum.

      Bishops, priests and lay people from throughout the world filled the conference room from morning until evening. It was evident the participants in the conference were hungry to learn more and more about the Message of Fatima, and their appetite for knowledge appeared to increase even as it was fed.

      Each talk was more powerful than the one before, or rather each talk became part of a great symphony of truth that swelled and resonated throughout the Eternal City and the world. Our technical team worked tirelessly to make certain that the conference talks were posted daily on our dedicated web site: They can still be viewed there.

      The talks were made available in English and Italian. This was truly a global conference, followed daily by the Italian public and our supporters throughout the English-speaking world.

      And, of course, the Vatican was listening and watching too.

      Giuseppe De Carli, the journalist in charge of TV coverage of Pope Benedict's talks and travels for the Italian national TV network, actually attended The Fatima Challenge, giving an address and accepting questions afterward, of which there were many, posed by Christopher Ferrara, Father Nicholas Gruner and John Salza, all of whom speak Italian.
      To view this remarkable exchange, see: "'The Last Fatima Secret': The Story of a Journalist Who Didn't Want to be a 'Mariologist'"

      Why would such a prominent figure in the Italian media, the man who co-authored The Last Secret of Fatima with Vatican Secretary of State Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, take time from his busy schedule to spend hours at our conference, debating with our experts?

      Because we brought The Fatima Challenge to Rome and could not be ignored. The Vatican bureaucracy had to engage us in some way; had to acknowledge that we were there and that we were challenging their interpretation of the Fatima Message. They could not simply back down.

      Mr. De Carli presented what he wrongly termed the “official position” of the Vatican on the Third Secret: that its prophecies were fulfilled with the assassination attempt against Pope John Paul II and it is now a thing of the past.

      He later retracted the claim that this interpretation constituted an “official position” and admitted that it was attributable to Cardinal Bertone and Cardinal Sodano and that no one is bound to believe this position.

      The Pope, as Cardinal Ratzinger, had affirmed at a press conference following the June 2000 publication of the Third Secret and the accompanying text, The Message of Fatima, that the Church imposes no interpretation of Third Secret of Fatima on the faithful.

      There is no official Vatican position on the Third Secret. Period.

      De Carli also categorically denied that there is another hidden part of the Third Secret, what Italian journalist Antonio Socci has called The Fourth Secret of Fatima, in his book by that title. This claim precipitated one of the most dramatic moments of the conference.

      Pressed to acknowledge that another journalist, Solideo Paolini, reported that former secretary to Pope John XIII, Archbishop Loris Capovilla, in response to the question of whether there were two envelopes with two parts of the secret, answered “Precisely so,” Mr. De Carli said that either Paolini was lying or Capovilla was lying.

      “I think Paolini was lying,” De Carli said.

      Bombshell! Asked what emboldened him to make such an outrageous claim, De Carli said he was in possession of a letter that Capovilla had written to Cardinal Bertone in which he denies having said “Precisely so” to Paolini.

      Asked to produce the document, De Carli said he could not as it was “private correspondence.” So, the content of the private correspondence can be disclosed, but the proof of it cannot be shown? How strange! To borrow a phrase, the supposedly “official” position gets “curiouser and curiouser.”

      For a more detailed account of Christopher Ferrara's exchanges with Mr. De Carli, see: See also Fatima Perspective articles “Breakthrough in Rome” and “Pope Benedict 'Reopens the File' on the Third Secret of Fatima”.

Pope Contradicts De Carli, Bertone, Sodano

      Within a few days of the conclusion of The Fatima Challenge, with all of its startling developments, only a few of which are mentioned above, Pope Benedict shocked and astounded the press and the Catholic world by saying the Third Secret is not limited to the past but is day by day unfolding now. And he linked the prophecy of the Third Secret to sins from within the Church; to the clerical sexual-abuse scandals.

      The Pope thus contradicted former Secretary of State Cardinal Angelo Sodano and current Secretary of State Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone. No one could have foreseen this, especially not the two Cardinals and their collaborators in the attempt to bury the Third Secret of Fatima in the past.

      Aboard his plane to Portugal, the Pope answered just a few of the many questions submitted in advance by reporters that the Pope himself chose to answer. The questions were formulated by various reporters invited by the Vatican to fly with the Pope to Portugal on May 11. (For a full account of the interview, see:

      In a crucial part of the interview, the Pope's press secretary, Father Federico Lombardi, read the following chosen question:

      “Your Holiness, what meaning do the Fatima apparitions have for us today? In June 2000, when you presented the text of the third secret in the Vatican Press Office, a number of us and our former colleagues were present. You were asked if the message could be extended, beyond the attack on John Paul II, to other sufferings on the part of the Popes. Is it possible, to your mind, to include in that vision the sufferings of the Church today for the sins involving the sexual abuse of minors?”

      The Holy Father's answer is astounding:

      “ is true that, in addition to the moment indicated in the vision, there is mention of, there is seen, the need for a passion of the Church, which naturally is reflected in the person of the Pope, yet the Pope stands for the Church and thus it is sufferings of the Church that are announced.

      “...As for the new things which we can find in this message today, there is also the fact that attacks on the Pope and the Church come not only from without, but the sufferings of the Church come precisely from within the Church, from the sin existing within the Church.”

      Remember, that vision of the Third Secret released by the Vatican in June 2000 contains no mention or depiction of the Pope or the Church suffering from the sins of those within the Church.

      The vision is of an attack from without, culminating in the assassination of the bishop in white, along with other members of the clergy and laity, by soldiers using bullets and arrows. Sins from within? To what is the Pope referring? Obviously not the published vision.

      But if the Third Secret is unfolding now, and that if the passion of the Church it predicts is the result of sins from within, then there must be more to the Third Secret than was revealed in the June 2000 publication.

      Precisely so, concludes Antonio Socci, who affirms without hesitation that Pope Benedict is indeed talking about the hidden text — the so-called Fourth Secret of Fatima — that Socci and this apostolate have so insistently declared exists and must be revealed. (See:

      Socci declares that the Pope is engaged in what Socci calls “Operation Truth” on Fatima. This is what this apostolate has been engaged in for 33 years. Now, at last, we are being vindicated by no one less than the Vicar of Christ, Pope Benedict XVI.

      How far will the Holy Father go in Operation Truth? What more will he tell us about the “future realities” contained in the Third Secret? When will he at long last reveal the hidden text and call upon the bishops of the world to join him in consecrating Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary?

      The world is watching and waiting. And we in this apostolate are hoping and praying. We also continue our work of making the full Message of Fatima known. The few facts presented in this newsletter are but a small part of all that was disclosed at The Fatima Challenge and during the Pope's subsequent visit to Portugal.

      We are preparing an edition of The Fatima Crusader that will provide a fuller account of all that took place in Rome and the following week in Fatima. We ask for your prayers for the continued success of our mission, of Operation Truth. And we ask you to please pray, pray, pray for the Holy Father, that he will have courage and the protection of Our Lady in the trials to come.

      And as we cannot exaggerate the importance and success of The Fatima Challenge, we also cannot minimize the tremendous expense of the conference. We are now hard-pressed to meet the cost of day-to-day operations at The Fatima Center. So, I ask for your help.

      We must seize the moment and press our advantage. The next Fatima Crusader will be one of the most important we have ever published. A breakthrough edition. But we need your help to do it. Give all you can so that Our Lady's peace plan will be implemented very soon. The accurate fulfillment of the Fatima requests is the only way to avoid the otherwise foretold certain "annihilation of various nations" in our time. Our Lady's peace plan is the only way for the world to have peace.

Get your FREE copy of The Fatima Crusader! Provide your name and mailing address on the form at or call toll-free 1-800-263-8160. There is NO OBLIGATION of any kind.

      We must work and pray ever more fervently that the Holy Father and the bishops will heed the requests of Our Lady of Fatima. (See: Petition to Our Holy Father — The Consecration of Russia and Petition to Our Holy Father — The Release of the full Third Secret)

Latest Fatima Perspectives by
Christopher A. Ferrara

      Pope Benedict “Reopens the File” on the Third Secret of Fatima — Within days after the Fatima Challenge conference (someone at the Vatican was indeed watching, as the conference website monitoring data indicate) none other than Pope Benedict XVI clearly, calmly, and deliberately reopened the entire Third Secret controversy. He did so by demolishing the Sodano/Bertone “interpretation” of the vision of the “Bishop dressed in White” as involving nothing more than 20th century events, which they claimed now “belong to the past.”

      Breakthrough in Rome — At the recent Fatima Challenge conference in Rome there was another breakthrough for what Antonio Socci has dubbed “Operation Truth” on Fatima. To his credit, the Vaticanist Giuseppe De Carli appeared at the conference in an effort to defend the “official version” of events maintained by Cardinal Bertone, in keeping with the “party line” on Fatima established by his predecessor, Cardinal Sodano. The breakthrough came when Christopher Ferrara confronted De Carli concerning Cardinal Bertone's failure to produce the now famous “Capovilla envelope”.

      “Friendly Reflections?” A Summary of the Critique — “Friendly Reflections?” is a lengthy critique of arguments by one Antonio Borelli against the existence of a text of the Third Secret of Fatima that would accompany and explain, in the Blessed Virgin's own words, the vision of the “Bishop dressed in White” published on June 26, 2000. The title of the critique is a play on the title of Borelli's piece, which purports to provide “friendly reflections” on the Third Secret controversy in the spirit of promoting unity among Catholics. But, as the critique demonstrates, Borelli's “friendly reflections” no matter what his subjective intention may have been — seem calculated to disrupt the unity that already exists among faithful Catholics who have studied the controversy, considered the evidence, and arrived at the conclusion so candidly expressed by Mother Angelica on live television a year after the vision was published.

      The Last Days of Cardinal Kasper — Examines the fast-approaching end of the “ecumenical” career of Cardinal Walter Kasper, as reported in an article by The National Catholic Reporter's John Allen. The Cardinal's penchant for undermining Catholic dogma (for example, his denial of the historical reality of the apostolic succession and his call to “revisit” Pope Leo XIII's infallible proclamation on the invalidity of Anglican priestly orders) has been a focus of this column for years.


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I'm the biggest Fatima nut on this forum but even I think that Ferrara is stretching reality very thin with this article.

The fact is that for what will almost certainly be the only visit the Pope makes to Fatima in his entire pontificate he said little and did little.  I can't see that his words can have so much read into them.  If he was going to spill any beans Fatima was the time and the place to do it, but he did not.

My personal theory is that B16 is the Pope that gets killed with bullets and arrows.  I've thought this ever since he became Pope, given his personal connection with the TSOF cover-up.
God seems to delight in these ironies and I suspect it is going to take Russian tanks rolling over Europe and down into Italy to wake him up.  Like the King of France he will realise too late and get killed.

In 2005 this seemed far-fetched.  Now with the world economy on life-support and the life-support running on a dodgy generator of fiat currency, Europe looks like it could go tits up and America alongside it.  Throw in a decent natural disaster like Yellowstone or a mega-Tsunami and I can see Americans wanting to sort out their own backyard and letting the Russians do their "peacekeeping" or Eurocops mission.  As with all things Russian it get a bit messed up.  2017 seems a bit too distant and B16 would be pushing 90.  2012/13 seems a distinct possibility.

Europe's armies are an absolute joke with about as much focus and central control as their economic policy.  Not one European country has had any significant combat experience in the last 50 years with the exception of Britain.  The Russians are disorganised but they are ruthless sons-of-bitches and they would terrorize fat decadent Euro slobs and kick our arse like they kicked Georgia's.

I am not buying any tickets for the London Olympics let's put it that way.  Except maybe to scalp them and buy more beans, vodka and rolling tobacco with the profits.

Sister Lucy told Father Fuentes in a 1957 interview that "Russia will be the instrument of chastisement chosen by Heaven to punish the whole world if we do not beforehand obtain the conversion of that poor nation."

We've had 53 years to comply since then and they've consecrated just about everything they can but obstinately refused to consecrate Russia.
Also, it seems everyone forgets what St. Padre Pio had said on the matter

Padre Pio had long had a special devotion to Our Lady of Fatima. He made the prophecy:

"Russia will be converted when there is a Blue Army member for every Communist."

I'm with Ggreg, once I thought the Consecration would mitigate the Chastisement. Now I think it will be the opening bell for a multi-round punishment of Biblical Proportion. God is patient but it is way too late. Padre Pio's prediction concerning the Blue Army is also way to late. They think the Consecration has been done and I'd bet most don't know where their rosaries are any longer. Keep your children close to you and protect as many as you can.
(05-25-2010, 04:13 PM)timoose Wrote: [ -> ]Padre Pio's prediction concerning the Blue Army is also way to late.

Agreed, but I'm sure Padre Pio up in heaven obviously knows it isn't done either!!
(05-25-2010, 12:44 PM)ggreg Wrote: [ -> ]I'm the biggest Fatima nut on this forum but even I think that Ferrara is stretching reality very thin with this article.

The fact is that for what will almost certainly be the only visit the Pope makes to Fatima in his entire pontificate he said little and did little.  I can't see that his words can have so much read into them.  If he was going to spill any beans Fatima was the time and the place to do it, but he did not.

He admitted that the sexual abuse scandal in the Church was part of the one page text without actually admitting its existence or that they had lied about it.  The fact that that's part of the secret is really no surprise to those who've read Windswept House.  And then he added that future events (Apocalyptic) will unfold that will become clear with time --- but he didn't indicate that he was going to do anything about it, as in performing the consecration and publishing the Third Secret and doing what's necessary in regard to it.  He rather made it sound like these future events were a given and that he and Bertone are going to sit back and watch them transpire.
Just got this email newsletter:


On May 3, the world’s foremost experts on the most important event of modern times convened a great congress in Rome.

From morning to evening, from May 3 through May 7, The Fatima Challenge offered Masses, Rosaries and talks - each talk more powerful than the last - at the very doorstep of the Vatican as the Pope prepared for his pilgrimage to Fatima.

And the Vatican was listening.

Pope Benedict shocked the media and the Catholic world during his trip to Portugal by affirming the message we had been hammering home the previous week in Rome: Fatima is the key to understanding the present crisis in the Church and the world.

On his way to Portugal, the Holy Father spoke about the Third Secret to the press and made the following astounding and historic admission:

“... I would say that, here too, beyond this great vision of the suffering of the Pope, which we can in the first place refer to Pope John Paul II, an indication is given of realities involving the future of the Church, which are gradually taking shape and becoming evident. So it is true that, in addition to the moment indicated in the vision, there is mention of, there is seen, the need for a passion of the Church, which naturally is reflected in the person of the Pope, yet the Pope stands for the Church and thus it is sufferings of the Church that are announced.”

What can this mean, except that the Fatima prophecy is continuing to be realized in the sufferings of the Pope and the Church? Is this not what we in Our Lady’s Apostolate have been saying these past 33 years?

Is this not the message we brought to Rome and that the Pope took to Fatima? Italian journalist Antonio Socci has declared that the Pope is now engaged in “Operation Truth” on Fatima.

Of The Fatima Challenge, we can say: mission accomplished. The conference was a great success, even surpassing our highest hopes. But our work goes on.

We need to get the DVDs and printed copies of the conference talks to every bishop in the world and to as many priests and laity as we are able. They need to know what Our Lady expects of them - demands of them - in the name of obedience and charity.

So stay with us. Check for information about our ongoing efforts, and the upcoming issue of The Fatima Crusader that will focus on the amazing events that took place in Rome during The Fatima Challenge.

So, apparently Dr. Miravelle, someone with a history of saying the full Third Secret has been published and consecration has been completed, along with making critics out to be stupid, is now suddenly stating in excited speech that there's a one page text that hasn't been published, after just coming back from a visit in Rome.  He also implies that Pope Benedict is at odds with Cardinal Bertone and Sodano, and is separating himself from them on Fatima.

Miravelle starts talking about halfway through, after Mariani attributes the fall of the USSR to the 1984 consecration.

Oddly, Miravelle also seemed to have known that Pope Benedict was going to say something at Fatima about the Third Secret.  I don't know what the date was when this was filmed, but I'm getting the impression it was before Pope Benedict made his remarks:


BTW Mariani is a charismatic apparition-chaser and a shill for the bishops (right or wrong) most of the time.  Of course.
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