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Bishop Ketteler of Mainz gave an interesting perpective on "Ecumenism" 100 years before Vatican II (1862).  You can check it out here: 

http://opuscula.blogspot.com/2010/09/bis...ve-on.html
(09-28-2010, 06:39 PM)kgurries Wrote: [ -> ]Bishop Ketteler of Mainz gave an interesting perpective on "Ecumenism" 100 years before Vatican II (1862).  You can check it out here: 

http://opuscula.blogspot.com/2010/09/bis...ve-on.html

Now we see why Pius XI had to write the encyclical Mortalium Animos
Quote from article:
'Whatever great zeal we may have for effecting a reunion of all Christian churches, we Catholics may never conceal the truth that such reunion can mean nothing else but a return to the Catholic Church."

A quote from the days when Church men were sane and the ecumenical idea made sense
________________________________


-It is now obvious that the reunion of Christians was never the REAL aim or goal of those so-called ecumenists that led opinion at VII.
Their real goal was to destroy Catholicism, and they have done a fine job of it - congratulations!
(09-28-2010, 06:39 PM)kgurries Wrote: [ -> ]Bishop Ketteler of Mainz gave an interesting perpective on "Ecumenism" 100 years before Vatican II (1862).  You can check it out here: 

http://opuscula.blogspot.com/2010/09/bis...ve-on.html

Whatever great zeal we may have for effecting a reunion of all Christian churches, we Catholics may never conceal the truth that such reunion can mean nothing else but a return to the Catholic Church.[12]

Yes. Any union is possible only under the pope and the Magisterium.

It was evident 150 years ago, that the enemy will take over the world, and the only way to fight them is the unity of the people of God. If tou are separated they will break you.

I grown up with the story that a father gave a stick to his son, asking him to break it. He did it easily. Then the father bonded 15 sticks, asking the same, and the son failed.This is why our Lord prayed for the unity, a why the Enemy always worked for the disunity.
(09-29-2010, 01:25 AM)PeterII Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-28-2010, 06:39 PM)kgurries Wrote: [ -> ]Bishop Ketteler of Mainz gave an interesting perpective on "Ecumenism" 100 years before Vatican II (1862).  You can check it out here: 

http://opuscula.blogspot.com/2010/09/bis...ve-on.html

Now we see why Pius XI had to write the encyclical Mortalium Animos

Don't poison this bishop's memory by suggesting he was a dissident.  From what I've read, he was well loved by the papacy.

And if you looked closely at the article, you'd notice that many of the bishop's sentiments are similar to those that were later expressed in Mortalium Animos (as well as the Council's Decree on Ecumenism). 
Yes, he was highly respected by the Popes -- especially for his contribution to Catholic Social Teaching.  In fact, much of the content found in the Encyclicals of Pope Leo XIII -- especially those dealing with aspects of the social question -- can be directly traced to Ketteler.  I included the following biographical note on a previous post/article that deals with the topic of religious freedom.

Biographical Note

Wilhelm Emmanuel von Ketteler (1811-1877), Bishop of Mainz, is widely recognized as the pioneer of modern Catholic social teaching and his thought has found expression in the great social encyclicals since his time. Pope Pius IX had a high regard for Bishop Ketteler calling him “everything that a Bishop should be” while Pope Leo XIII would later refer to him as “our great predecessor from whom I have learned.” (op. cit., xi; xiv)

http://opuscula.blogspot.com/2008/07/on-...art-i.html

(09-29-2010, 11:29 AM)MeaMaximaCulpa Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-29-2010, 01:25 AM)PeterII Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-28-2010, 06:39 PM)kgurries Wrote: [ -> ]Bishop Ketteler of Mainz gave an interesting perpective on "Ecumenism" 100 years before Vatican II (1862).  You can check it out here: 

http://opuscula.blogspot.com/2010/09/bis...ve-on.html

Now we see why Pius XI had to write the encyclical Mortalium Animos

Don't poison this bishop's memory by suggesting he was a dissident.  From what I've read, he was well loved by the papacy.

And if you looked closely at the article, you'd notice that many of the bishop's sentiments are similar to those that were later expressed in Mortalium Animos (as well as the Council's Decree on Ecumenism). 

If you would have read it even more closely, you would realize how much sentimental manure in the extract is a catalyst for ecumenical errors that are addressed and condemned in Mortalium Animos (conveniently not included in the footnotes I may add).

For example:

Ketteler Wrote:His entire exalted task is summed up in the words which he spoke to His Father on the night before He died: “It is not for them that I pray; I pray for those who are to find faith in me through their word; that they may all be one; that they too may be one in us, as thou, Father, art in me, and I in Thee…(John 17: 20-21).

Mortalium Animos Wrote:7. And here it seems opportune to expound and to refute a certain false opinion, on which this whole question, as well as that complex movement by which non-Catholics seek to bring about the union of the Christian churches depends. For authors who favor this view are accustomed, times almost without number, to bring forward these words of Christ: "That they all may be one.... And there shall be one fold and one shepherd,"[14] with this signification however: that Christ Jesus merely expressed a desire and prayer, which still lacks its fulfillment.

Ketteler Wrote:This descent of Divine Wisdom and Love from Heaven has not enjoyed the triumphant success which it should have on earth among the human beings which they were to liberate and make happy.


Mortalium Animos Wrote:For they are of the opinion that the unity of faith and government, which is a note of the one true Church of Christ, has hardly up to the present time existed, and does not to-day exist.

Ketteler Wrote:The second method of working for Christian reunion consists in our avoiding all controversies among ourselves and in trying to depict the great supernatural truths of Christianity by the way we live our lives

Mortalium Animos Wrote:Controversies therefore, they say, and longstanding differences of opinion which keep asunder till the present day the members of the Christian family, must be entirely put aside, and from the remaining doctrines a common form of faith drawn up and proposed for belief, and in the profession of which all may not only know but feel that they are brothers.

And of course there is the problem of communio in sacris proposed by the Bishop. 
(09-29-2010, 11:29 AM)MeaMaximaCulpa Wrote: [ -> ]Don't poison this bishop's memory by suggesting he was a dissident.  From what I've read, he was well loved by the papacy.

Being well loved by one pope or even many does not necessarily mean that one's opinions are orthodox.
(09-29-2010, 05:13 PM)Resurrexi Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-29-2010, 11:29 AM)MeaMaximaCulpa Wrote: [ -> ]Don't poison this bishop's memory by suggesting he was a dissident.  From what I've read, he was well loved by the papacy.

Being well loved by one pope or even many does not necessarily mean that one's opinions are orthodox.

His writings were well known and widely distributed in many languages -- even inspiring Papal Encyclicals.  His orthodoxy has never been called into question.  In fact, Pope Pius X placed a loving tribute upon his grave... 
(09-29-2010, 04:49 PM)PeterII Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-29-2010, 11:29 AM)MeaMaximaCulpa Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-29-2010, 01:25 AM)PeterII Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-28-2010, 06:39 PM)kgurries Wrote: [ -> ]Bishop Ketteler of Mainz gave an interesting perpective on "Ecumenism" 100 years before Vatican II (1862).  You can check it out here: 

http://opuscula.blogspot.com/2010/09/bis...ve-on.html

Now we see why Pius XI had to write the encyclical Mortalium Animos

Don't poison this bishop's memory by suggesting he was a dissident.  From what I've read, he was well loved by the papacy.

And if you looked closely at the article, you'd notice that many of the bishop's sentiments are similar to those that were later expressed in Mortalium Animos (as well as the Council's Decree on Ecumenism). 

If you would have read it even more closely, you would realize how much sentimental manure in the extract is a catalyst for ecumenical errors that are addressed and condemned in Mortalium Animos (conveniently not included in the footnotes I may add).

For example:

Ketteler Wrote:His entire exalted task is summed up in the words which he spoke to His Father on the night before He died: “It is not for them that I pray; I pray for those who are to find faith in me through their word; that they may all be one; that they too may be one in us, as thou, Father, art in me, and I in Thee…(John 17: 20-21).

Mortalium Animos Wrote:7. And here it seems opportune to expound and to refute a certain false opinion, on which this whole question, as well as that complex movement by which non-Catholics seek to bring about the union of the Christian churches depends. For authors who favor this view are accustomed, times almost without number, to bring forward these words of Christ: "That they all may be one.... And there shall be one fold and one shepherd,"[14] with this signification however: that Christ Jesus merely expressed a desire and prayer, which still lacks its fulfillment.

Ketteler Wrote:This descent of Divine Wisdom and Love from Heaven has not enjoyed the triumphant success which it should have on earth among the human beings which they were to liberate and make happy.


Mortalium Animos Wrote:For they are of the opinion that the unity of faith and government, which is a note of the one true Church of Christ, has hardly up to the present time existed, and does not to-day exist.

Ketteler Wrote:The second method of working for Christian reunion consists in our avoiding all controversies among ourselves and in trying to depict the great supernatural truths of Christianity by the way we live our lives

Mortalium Animos Wrote:Controversies therefore, they say, and longstanding differences of opinion which keep asunder till the present day the members of the Christian family, must be entirely put aside, and from the remaining doctrines a common form of faith drawn up and proposed for belief, and in the profession of which all may not only know but feel that they are brothers.

And of course there is the problem of communio in sacris proposed by the Bishop. 

None of these are contradictory if you read and understand what they say.  For example, Ketteler speaks of avoiding controversies "among ourselves" (among Catholics) so as to be examples of charity and not giving scandal to others.  MA is denouncing the tendency to overlook or bury all differences between Catholics and non-Catholics.  These are different things altogether. 
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