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Full Version: So I joined a program called "Why Catholic?" in my parish cluster.
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I'm not sure what it will be about, but it starts Monday and I need a Bible and I have to buy a copy of the Catechism from my priest (I can't bring my own).  The parish cluster is comprised of three NO parishes.

Are there any suggestions for questioning the validity/necessity of the NO Mass in favor of the TLM if opportunities present themselves?
I don't think that would be very welcome.  Most people will probably not even know what you are talking about.  There might be opportunities to discuss traditional understandings of Catholic teaching, though.
Exactly my idea, I've just been trying to think of ways to bring up more traditional things like the TLM and pre-Vatican II teachings.
Well first get a D/R bible. Then get a Baltimore Catechism, and buy the one he wants you to have. Then go to work. Your D/R will have slightly different words and meaning so ask why ? Then the Catechism will be different and ask why ? If you keep your head and ask charitably you might get results. Remember they are not the enemy and discussion can bring understanding.
Perhaps you'll get him to celebrate the TLM. Who knows.
tim
(09-29-2010, 08:36 PM)dark lancer Wrote: [ -> ]Are there any suggestions for questioning the validity/necessity of the NO Mass in favor of the TLM if opportunities present themselves?

Questioning the validity?
(09-29-2010, 08:36 PM)dark lancer Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not sure what it will be about, but it starts Monday and I need a Bible and I have to buy a copy of the Catechism from my priest (I can't bring my own).  The parish cluster is comprised of three NO parishes.

Are there any suggestions for questioning the validity/necessity of the NO Mass in favor of the TLM if opportunities present themselves?

I would first start on the basics, ie, that the Church is infallible and guided by God. I would study modernism if I were not familiar with it so I could avoid it.

If at any point modernism or something which suggests the Church has changed teachings (it hasn't, even after Vatican II...people are just more confused now), I would immediately show it to be false. I would not actively seek to prove any point. If it is good, then there will be no need. I would also avoid complex subjects, such as the liturgy and focus on the basics (which the Catechism would cover).
(09-29-2010, 08:36 PM)dark lancer Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not sure what it will be about, but it starts Monday and I need a Bible and I have to buy a copy of the Catechism from my priest (I can't bring my own).  The parish cluster is comprised of three NO parishes.

Are there any suggestions for questioning the validity/necessity of the NO Mass in favor of the TLM if opportunities present themselves?

This is a program from Renew. It is riddled with errors. It is also almost entirely based on "sharing experiences" etc. If you hang around, you can maybe talk about how the TLM has nourished your faith. Given that I reject any notion that the NO is invalid, I'm not going there.
My suggestion would be to actually wait to see what's being taught before deciding to teach the class yourself.  Since the class hasn't started yet, you have no idea what its going to be about.  Contrary to popular opinion, most "NO priests" (and seminarians!) don't lie awake at night thinking about how they can subvert Catholic doctrine.  If that was our goal, then we certainly wouldn't require everyone to have a catechism.  That's like giving them a dogmatic gun and ammo.  Nor would we offer adult education classes.  If you want to control people, then you keep them ignorant.

If you're going to this, I hope its because you're seeking to learn something.  Perhaps you want to learn more about the climate of the parish,  meet people, or perhaps you realize that in theology there's always something to new to learn.  But if you want my advice (and I've led programs like this before as part of my summer parish assignments), don't sign up for this as a participant and go into it is the teacher.

And I also think its helpful to give people the benefit of the doubt initially.  Sometimes people can misspeak.  If something doesn't sound right, first look it up, so you don't cry wolf and then find yourself corrected by the catechism.  Secondly, I think Christian charity demands that we assume our brothers are acting in good faith.  If the leader says something like: "The Church stresses the importance of having faith", then don't yell out "That's Sola Fide!"  Wait to let him/her clarify the statement, and perhaps provide your own perspective/clarification when the time comes.  I'm sorry, but saying "You're a heretic/That's heresy!" to someone is not fraternal correction.  First, because it might not be true.  Second, because I think when people do this, its first to serve themselves, and not in a genuine desire for someone else's good.  If they did desire someone else's good, they first try to build up a solid relationship with that person, so that their words wouldn't fall on a stranger's ears, and second they'd take every effort to make sure their words are charitable.  I see Sts. Pio and John Vianney as terrific examples of this.

MMC gave a good answer and there is another in his sig line, in case you didn't notice:

" And if I should have prophecy and should know all mysteries, and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing."-1 Corinthians 13:2


signing up for a class at an NO parish and then asking at FE "Are there any suggestions for questioning the validity/necessity of the NO Mass in favor of the TLM if opportunities present themselves?" does not sound like you are approaching the class with a charitable attitude.

think about it:  you want to question the validity/necessity of the NO Mass at a class being given under the auspices of a NO parish?

i can't see that you will endear either yourself, the TLM, or anything about tradition to others in the class, or to the teacher(s).

please just give it a try and see if you can learn something, rather than starting arguments.  the others in the class will have had to buy a catechism, too, and deserve to get their money's worth out of the class.




I'm not quite sure why everyone here at FE seems to assume that I only signed up for it to argue.  Maybe it's just the inherent FE arrogance, which I have done well to shield myself from.

I really only want to know what to watch for and what to suggest during the meetings.  I asked the way I did because it seemed like most people here respond well to "RARGH HATE THE NO" kind of rhetoric.
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