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as i was going into adoration yesterday, i was approached by a man who asked me "what goes on in there all day?"  i told him prayer, 24/7.  he proceeded to ask me if i read the bible.....and well, you can guess the rest.  he was an ex catholic, turned baptist, turned penticostal.  i spent 1/2 hour talking to him, when i should have just said politely "i have to get my 2 little ones indoors and go adore our Lord"

so, penticostals dont believe in the trinity?  he was also saying something about baptizing in the name of Jesus Christ, not the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

it was crazy, because all of my apologetics i know are for protestants, and i guess this guy told me they dont consider themselves protty....which I was like, well, you are...i mean, if you read the KJV of the bible, thats pretty protty.  He was saying they found some bible buried with ancient christians that has the protty version of the bible.

anyway, I would appreciate anyone who has penticostal knowledge to fill me in.  He was basically saying unless I start to roll around on the floor and utter nonsense, I am not filled with the Holy Ghost.

ugg, i am terrible at apologetics, and at 27 weeks pregnant, way too nice for my own good.  I wanted to be charitable, but the conversation was kind of schitzo.  everytime I would make a point he would go on to the next subject. Pray
(11-02-2010, 06:42 PM)mamalove Wrote: [ -> ]so, penticostals dont believe in the trinity?  he was also saying something about baptizing in the name of Jesus Christ, not the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
In the Bible, there are references to being baptised in the name of Jesus Christ. This is to distinguish from the baptism of St. John, but some outside the Church mistake it to being the formula too.

The errors of those called "pentecostal" are many and there are many different sects. They all mistake the nature of God and misuse the scriptural references to the Holy Spirit and baptism.

They do, as far as I know, accept the Trinity, but I do not know how they express it.

Quote:anyway, I would appreciate anyone who has penticostal knowledge to fill me in.  He was basically saying unless I start to roll around on the floor and utter nonsense, I am not filled with the Holy Ghost.

ugg, i am terrible at apologetics, and at 27 weeks pregnant, way too nice for my own good.  I wanted to be charitable, but the conversation was kind of schitzo.  everytime I would make a point he would go on to the next subject. Pray
The good news is that nothing you could have stated would have changed him. He can change by his own will by the grace of God alone. So, disputing with him, especially one who should know better, will not bear much fruit.

And yes, they are very disturbed. You can find videos of their "services". Basically, people jumping around and babbling and shouting.

With all I know, the best response to such things as I found are not to engage. They do not intend to listen any way, and we cannot change their minds. One can make a simple declaration of one's believes and leave it at that. If I wanted to show them to be fools, I would speak to them in another language (or many languages). However, I do not think that is entirely charitable except in a debate about such things.

Congratulations on the coming baby Smile
Ah man, the ex-Catholic ones are the worst.  What a waste!  They usually come armed with what they think are show-stopping arguments against the Church.

Certain types of Pentecostals reject the Holy Trinity – I believe they’re called “Oneness Pentecostals” or something.

As for whatever else you should have said to him, it really depends on the points he made.  I usually find protties fairly easy to answer, but hard to convince – though when they start making things up about buried bibles, it makes the job a whole lot harder.

Even just being nice to him might be a better response than countering him with a whole lot of rational arguments.  These people typically aren’t moved by logic, but who knows – charity might set something off in their consciences that makes them think twice.
Lots of "Bible Christians" don't believe they're Protestants, either - meaning they don't *know* they're Prots.

You can start by asking them if they believe the Bible is the sole source of authority for Christians, and that they are saved by "faith alone".  When they answer in the affirmative, you can point out that neither of these concepts was EVER taught by any Christian until Martin Luther, the first Protestant.

As for being "schitzo", that's par too.  Many seem very poor at reasoning logically, and many on top of that are either so convinced they're right and/or so afraid they're not they literally do not listen to anything anyone says.

Good luck if you meet him again... offer a decade of the rosary, or even one Hail Mary, for his conversion.
(11-02-2010, 06:56 PM)The Catholic Thinker Wrote: [ -> ]You can start by asking them if they believe the Bible is the sole source of authority for Christians, and that they are saved by "faith alone".  When they answer in the affirmative, you can point out that neither of these concepts was EVER taught by any Christian until Martin Luther, the first Protestant.

Yeah, and the Bible teaches the opposite.

But, I've used those arguments with them before and it doesn't seem to bother them.  Confused
(11-02-2010, 07:01 PM)paragon Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-02-2010, 06:56 PM)The Catholic Thinker Wrote: [ -> ]You can start by asking them if they believe the Bible is the sole source of authority for Christians, and that they are saved by "faith alone".  When they answer in the affirmative, you can point out that neither of these concepts was EVER taught by any Christian until Martin Luther, the first Protestant.

Yeah, and the Bible teaches the opposite.

But, I've used those arguments with them before and it doesn't seem to bother them.   Confused

Another good point (1 Tim 3:15 for instance, which *defines* the "pillar of truth" (it ain't "the Bible")).

And, yes, like I said, very many of them - most - don't want to listen or think.
(11-02-2010, 06:56 PM)The Catholic Thinker Wrote: [ -> ]Lots of "Bible Christians" don't believe they're Protestants, either - meaning they don't *know* they're Prots.

Technically, protestant is more restricted than typically used. Using a stricter definition for example would exclude Anglicans from the Protestant label.

The terms are not worth disputing (if they protest the term). There is only True and False. In error or not.
Good one Thinker, and also 2 Thess 2:15.
My brother is a lapsed Pentecostal and we had a long chat about Catholicism last Saturday night before he accompanied me to mass on Sunday. It's pretty much a lost cause from the get-go. I'm able to clear up popular misconceptions with him, like Catholics don't worship Mary, that sort of thing, but I can't really convince him of anything. They really think that every Pope was completely off their rocker. I try to give him things to think about long-term, like he'll say that the laws of the Catholic church are man-made and unbiblical. I asked him who decided the canon of scripture. Most Protestants I know don't consider that.

And yeah he sounded like a Oneness Pentecostal. They believe that Jesus is the Father, that Jesus is the Son, that Jesus is the Holy Spirit... So when they read "baptize in the name [singular] of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit", they interpret this as meaning the name of Jesus. Even Evangelicals don't get along well with these folks.
Yes, the canon - another good area.  Christians were being tortured and killed (and saying Mass, of course) for over three centuries until "the Bible" was finally put together - by a council of the Catholic Church.  (And all of them have to allow it was "Catholic", since it is after the date in the earth fourth century that the nutty ones say the Church was "created" (by Constantine's decree.)
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