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People in former times were under the impression that the "seed" that would grow into the child came from the father, and the mother merely provided the environment that would enable it to live until birth.  If you believed that, it would make sense to maximize the chance of conception every time, and to avoid intercourse during infertile periods.  Now that we know better, it is clear that it is merely necessary to avoid deliberately frustrating conception.
(11-17-2010, 06:54 PM)ardens Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-17-2010, 05:46 PM)ies0716 Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-17-2010, 04:54 PM)3Sanctus Wrote: [ -> ]So any position is okay as long as only vaginal intercourse is engaged in?

Being vague for the sake of charity...are there other things that can be done during vaginal intercourse to ensure both parties enjoy the act as fully as possible?  It's easier for a male to fully enjoy the marital act than it is for his wife...are there licit ways to do something about this disparity?

The general rule as I've always understood it is that as long as things "complete" in the correct fashion, then anything else except for sodomy is allowable.  I base this upon JPII's "Theology of the Body" (not Christopher West's interpretations thereof), and I am aware that this source may not be worth much to many here.

What if the wife "completes," but the husband finds himself unable to complete, as in times when they have completed the marital act once or several times previously that day?

That situation is created by human action and therefore becomes a more complex moral issue that has to consider the issues brought up by ies0716.

I was referring to the simple issue of completion of the act for each spouse in and of itself.  While I would not be willing to do something sinful with my future wife (should I get married), I'm sure she would appreciate me doing everything I can - plus, if I get married I'm presuming I will love the woman and will want to do everything I can.
Certainly there are things which should be forbidden even if the act would finish in proper completion, right?
(11-17-2010, 07:42 PM)Walty Wrote: [ -> ]Certainly there are things which should be forbidden even if the act would finish in proper completion, right?

That would certainly seem the case to me, though I don't know what's okay and what's not.

With all due respect to the ies and his post, I'd like a more traditional viewpoint on the issue, especially if it can provide sources.
(11-17-2010, 07:45 PM)3Sanctus Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-17-2010, 07:42 PM)Walty Wrote: [ -> ]Certainly there are things which should be forbidden even if the act would finish in proper completion, right?

That would certainly seem the case to me, though I don't know what's okay and what's not.

With all due respect to the ies and his post, I'd like a more traditional viewpoint on the issue, especially if it can provide sources.

I would too.  I thoroughly understand a lot of JPII's TOB, but I also see the possible problems with it.  I'm much more comfortable knowing what was spoken about before the Council regarding these issues.  There are a lot of married people here.  They must know something.
(11-17-2010, 04:54 PM)3Sanctus Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-17-2010, 05:04 AM)Rosarium Wrote: [ -> ]It was thought in the past that this position was useful for conception, therefore other positions were contraceptive.

This is not true. Contraception and the killing of humans were always known to be wrong. The exact mechanisms of human reproduction were not revealed to us through the Church. This means St. Thomas had errors in application, but the principles were true.

So any position is okay as long as only vaginal intercourse is engaged in?

Being vague for the sake of charity...are there other things that can be done during vaginal intercourse to ensure both parties enjoy the act as fully as possible?  It's easier for a male to fully enjoy the marital act than it is for his wife...are there licit ways to do something about this disparity?
This is way beyond the scope of my response.

It is clear from scripture that we are called to holiness and chastity.

Quote:Lord God of our father, may the heavens and the earth, and the sea, and the fountains, and the rivers, and all thy creatures that are in them, bless thee. Thou madest Adam of the slime of the earth, and gavest him Eve for a helper. And now, Lord, thou knowest, that not for fleshly lust do I take my sister to wife, but only for the love of posterity, in which thy name may be blessed for ever and ever. Sara also said: Have mercy on us, O Lord, have mercy on us, and let us grow old both together in health.

I do not know or have experience with the dynamics of the day to day lives of the married.
(11-17-2010, 07:45 PM)3Sanctus Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-17-2010, 07:42 PM)Walty Wrote: [ -> ]Certainly there are things which should be forbidden even if the act would finish in proper completion, right?

That would certainly seem the case to me, though I don't know what's okay and what's not.

With all due respect to the ies and his post, I'd like a more traditional viewpoint on the issue, especially if it can provide sources.

Rather than treating the subject as a sexual satisfaction treatise, the bond of marriage is not an excuse for sexual experimentation and exploration. It is a sacrament binding two people according to God's design.

I think if a proper married couple are intending to engage in the marital act properly for the right reasons, then the exact details of it are unimportant.

This whole thread is making me laugh....and trust me, no matter what way ya do it, if the stuff ends up where it should, you"ll get pregnant....
(11-17-2010, 08:19 PM)CanadianCatholic Wrote: [ -> ]you"ll get pregnant....
No I won't. Even if I were married, I am still a man and incapable of becoming pregnant.
(11-17-2010, 08:19 PM)CanadianCatholic Wrote: [ -> ]This whole thread is making me laugh....and trust me, no matter what way ya do it, if the stuff ends up where it should, you"ll get pregnant....

Yeah, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily ok to do absolutely anything you can come up with.
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