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For anyone interested in this thread, I think this link is very interesting.

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2011/03/while-spirit-of-vatican-ii-reigns.html


For those who may not know, the psuedonymous commenter there - P.T.K.P seems an unusually acute observer of the tradition worldwide.

In his comment, he singles out Arlington Virginia in a remarkable way, I feel ...

Finally if anyone knows any other articles on the web about this diocese, I should be very interested.

From the things earlier in this thread etc, it seems something very meaningful indeed is happening there ...
I am resurrecting this thread that I myself started ...

And feeling  :-[  embarassed in case I am just talking to myself and no-one else is really interested anymore.

But I just feel this thread points to something so so important for traditional Catholicism:

In a nutshell for anyone coming to this thread for the first time:

The diocese of Arlington Virginia - where Christendom College is located - could be the most traditional diocese in America, and among the most traditional in the world

It has seen a rapidly expanding number of Catholics and TLM's etc.

And how I became alerted to this thing was through  one of the most surreal articles I have read in my life - by people clearly very, very threatened by the" dangerous trads" in Virginia.

The article begins:

A "Carlist"-fascist nest in certain Northern Virginia schools, churches and security agencies, targets Lyndon LaRouche's movement and Pope John Paul II's ecumenical mission; and promotes the Brzezinski-Huntington "Clash of Civilizations."  ...

In the course of the last several months, a team of EIR reporters has been conducting an intensive national-security investigation into what has been shown to be a longstanding intelligence operation targetting the political association of Lyndon LaRouche.

This investigation ... has uncovered a large chunk of the evidence exposing a fascist, anti-Semitic, anti-American network, which has been operating under the cover of the Catholic Church in the Arlington Diocese of Northern Virginia."


Any more comments?
I noticed this thread today for its provocative title. 

First, I am astounded that a LaRouchie article would be quoted for any reason on a trad Catholic forum, except for a good laugh. 
I think we gain similar insight into Trad (or any other kind of actual) Catholicism at rense.com, and the laughs are about as good there. 

Also, I was surprised that the article received such a polite response here at FE. 
Perhaps many readers just considered it too far out to merit a response, and I'm just being so indiscreet as to draw attention to what should be ignored. 
But hey, funny is funny, and Larouchies finding a fascist, anti-JPII conspiracy at Seton/Christendom is hilarious for anyone in the know. 

I would say that Seton and Christendom are likely to produce Catholics far more amenable to Tradition than, say, a typical diocesan high school or (rather Charismatic) Steubenville. 
I can't speak to the Seton homeschool connection, but Seton High is an orthodox, Neo-con, NO Catholic school whose staff and parent communities are passionately pro-JPII. 
By and large, these are good people at a decent school offering far more authentic Catholicism than the Diocesan schools. 
I'm not as familiar with Christendom, except that I had a child almost attend, so we looked carefully. 
They still take in loco parentis seriously there, something which was standard at American colleges until the 60's. 
The Faith is central to what they do, and Tradition is respected there. 
In fact, I understand that they used to take communion kneeling until the local Bishop ordered them to stop. 

Which brings me to the Diocese of Arlington as some beacon of Tradition to the world. 
That could only be true in a world where most places are more like our neighbor to the north: the Peoples Democratic Republic of Maryland. 

Any Tradition flourishing, or even surviving in Arlington is despite our bishop rather than assisted by him. 
Prior to Summorum Pontificum we were "granted" two indult '62 TLM Masses in Front Royal (rural far west) and Alexandria (urban east) in exchange for putting alter girls with the boys. 
You may see a decline in priestly vocations now; I know I have seen less boys interested in serving at the alter, and that number will continue to drop, IMO. 
My daughter was just Confirmed last Saturday, and our Bishop conducted a Mass that felt like a NO service on the Merv Griffin Show where it was at least as much about His Excellency as about the Holy Spirit. 
As usual, he gave an interminable Sermon (the exact same one as always, if you've heard it before).  He went on and on about the dangerous things in the world like drugs, sex, popular culture, abortion, porn....  And with all he had to say about the consequences for such things, it was all worldly.  Not a thing about danger to the soul, origins of sin, Satan, Hell, offending our Lord and alienating ourselves from Him, ...nothing. 
The Bishop who leads this mythical beacon of Tradition is Loverde, and he is as guilty of spiritual murder as most any other Bishop. 
See http://www.rcf.org/pdfs/hdep.pdf for what, so far as I know, is the most egregious among multiple examples here in Arlington. 

So, though tradition may well survive and flourish in the Diocese of Arlington, it's not because Newchurch isn't trying. 
(04-14-2011, 03:27 AM)Roger Buck Wrote: [ -> ]I am resurrecting this thread that I myself started ...

And feeling  :-[   embarassed in case I am just talking to myself and no-one else is really interested anymore.

But I just feel this thread points to something so so important for traditional Catholicism:

In a nutshell for anyone coming to this thread for the first time:

The diocese of Arlington Virginia - where Christendom College is located - could be the most traditional diocese in America, and among the most traditional in the world

It has seen a rapidly expanding number of Catholics and TLM's etc.

And how I became alerted to this thing was through  one of the most surreal articles I have read in my life - by people clearly very, very threatened by the" dangerous trads" in Virginia.

The article begins:

A "Carlist"-fascist nest in certain Northern Virginia schools, churches and security agencies, targets Lyndon LaRouche's movement and Pope John Paul II's ecumenical mission; and promotes the Brzezinski-Huntington "Clash of Civilizations."  ...

In the course of the last several months, a team of EIR reporters has been conducting an intensive national-security investigation into what has been shown to be a longstanding intelligence operation targetting the political association of Lyndon LaRouche.

This investigation ... has uncovered a large chunk of the evidence exposing a fascist, anti-Semitic, anti-American network, which has been operating under the cover of the Catholic Church in the Arlington Diocese of Northern Virginia."


Any more comments?

I think Larouche is mentally ill myself.  He's been accusing the Queen of England of being a drug dealer for a long time.  He also says that the proper understanding of the filioque will bring peace in the world as it was envisioned by the Council of Ferrara Florence, and that the Devil controls the world banking system.

He's also a HUGE JPII fan.  Go figure.
(04-14-2011, 07:26 AM)Himagain Wrote: [ -> ]As usual, he gave an interminable Sermon (the exact same one as always, if you've heard it before).  He went on and on about the dangerous things in the world like drugs, sex, popular culture, abortion, porn....  And with all he had to say about the consequences for such things, it was all worldly.  Not a thing about danger to the soul, origins of sin, Satan, Hell, offending our Lord and alienating ourselves from Him, ...nothing. 
The Bishop who leads this mythical beacon of Tradition is Loverde, and he is as guilty of spiritual murder as most any other Bishop. 
See http://www.rcf.org/pdfs/hdep.pdf for what, so far as I know, is the most egregious among multiple examples here in Arlington. 

So, though tradition may well survive and flourish in the Diocese of Arlington, it's not because Newchurch isn't trying. 

Himagain, I take your point here - and I am glad to get all sides about this diocese.

I never suspected it was a bishop behind the marked growth in Arlington ...

I felt this crazed LaRouchist article could only be so incredibly hostile, threatened by the Christendom/Seton complex because something was going right there ...

Then other people joined this thread confirming that this diocese was very special and unusual indeed. People at Rorate Caeli were indicating the same thing.

I am glad to hear of all sides, warts all about this diocese - but here's the bottom line for me.

The Catholic Church is dying.

Dying through Attrition.

Maybe not in the Third World so-called, but in the First World, clearly.

Yet in Arlington we apparently see: The VERY REVERSE of Attrition

However imperfectly something is going right there.

This is why the LaRouchists don't like it.

And this is why I think this diocese should be of interest to all traditional Catholics whatever its faults ...
I certainly agree Arlington is doing well. But I think it needs to be pointed out that much of its strength in orthodoxy was established under Bishop Welsh and his successor Keating. Loverde is regarded as a dubious character by some Catholics in Arlington for a number of reasons. One was his removal of Father Jim Gould as director of vocations. Gould by all accounts was doing a good job and vocations were flourishing under him.
See: http://www.newoxfordreview.org/article.j...=0305-rose
Loverde at one point planned to force everyone to receive Communion standing but was shot down by Rome pretty quick. All in all, whatever Loverde's intentions may be he is surrounded by some very solid priests and it's hard for him to get too far out of line.
Now, as for the Larouchies or Laroachies as I prefer I don't think they are really playing with a full deck so to speak so any attempts at rational analysis of their positions is doomed. Sure Warren Carroll is a supporter of the Carlist cause, and some folks if not a majority at Christendom are monarchist in their outlook. Many there have a certain nostalgia for the old Catholic world of Catholic Spain and the Hapsburgs. But I don't think they are a real threat to our "democracy".

C.
(04-18-2011, 09:22 AM)Cetil Wrote: [ -> ]I certainly agree Arlington is doing well. But I think it needs to be pointed out that much of its strength in orthodoxy was established under Bishop Welsh and his successor Keating. Loverde is regarded as a dubious character by some Catholics in Arlington for a number of reasons. One was his removal of Father Jim Gould as director of vocations. Gould by all accounts was doing a good job and vocations were flourishing under him.

Thank you ... very interesting piece.

As I have said before, we could have the closest thing - at least in the English speaking world - that we are going to get for "laboratory evidence" as to maintaining vs destroying tradition.

Clearly the people at Fisheaters don't need such evidence. It's a no-brainer.

Unfortunately amidst the mass confusion that exists in the Church, some people could really benefit from exposure to such evidence. I wish someone would do an in-depth study of this diocese over the decades.

Everything you are saying here is very much appreciated ...
(04-19-2011, 12:18 PM)Roger Buck Wrote: [ -> ]I wish someone would do an in-depth study of this diocese over the decades.

Everything you are saying here is very much appreciated ...

After posting the above, it hit me that perhaps this is exactly what Michael S Rose has done in his book. Most interesting. I need to check this out.
(04-19-2011, 12:18 PM)Roger Buck Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-18-2011, 09:22 AM)Cetil Wrote: [ -> ]I certainly agree Arlington is doing well. But I think it needs to be pointed out that much of its strength in orthodoxy was established under Bishop Welsh and his successor Keating. Loverde is regarded as a dubious character by some Catholics in Arlington for a number of reasons. One was his removal of Father Jim Gould as director of vocations. Gould by all accounts was doing a good job and vocations were flourishing under him.

Thank you ... very interesting piece.

As I have said before, we could have the closest thing - at least in the English speaking world - that we are going to get for "laboratory evidence" as to maintaining vs destroying tradition.

Clearly the people at Fisheaters don't need such evidence. It's a no-brainer.

Unfortunately amidst the mass confusion that exists in the Church, some people could really benefit from exposure to such evidence. I wish someone would do an in-depth study of this diocese over the decades.

Everything you are saying here is very much appreciated ...

I think you have more than just Arlington. Look at orders that have remained faithful to the Magisterium, they are flourishing such as the Dominican Sisters of Mary, Mother of the Eucharist. They were founded in 1997 with just four sisters, they now have over 100 and have been featured on "Oprah" twice. (Not that it matters but it's nice for them to get the exposure, so the secular world can see just how traditional religious life can still flourish). Their average age is 28! One can cite others such as the Franciscans of the Immaculate, founded in 1990 who now have over 400 members. There are other examples. Tradition is taking hold again in the Church and only those orders who embrace it will survive.

This 1996 article by Archbishop Elden Curtis is very much to the point also: http://www.ewtn.com/library/BISHOPS/WHATCRIS.HTM
The vocations "crisis" is contrived by those who wish to distort and destroy Catholic teaching. Imagine how green the polyester pant suits nuns must be when they see the Dominican Sisters and all the vocations they have. Left to their own devices they will wither and die. "By their fruits you shall know them".

C.
My oldest son will be starting Christendom College in the fall. We have no reservations whatsoever. It was the only Catholic college he (and we) seriously considered.
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