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To Jacob - I just want to thank you for your latest link ... which I have read before but maybe need to revisit.

Also a question for you ...

You have me totally fascinated by this very expensive Popowski book! Please can you tell me how it compares with /how much overlap there is with the PDF.

I guess some of it is the same, but I guess it also significantly expanded?
So far I have hesitated to cite very much from Mr Kittens' long, complex article about the so-called "fascists" at Christendom College. It is nasty indeed and could offend people.

I am also aware of many people thinking: what's the point of this? As HimAgain wrote long ago:

(04-14-2011, 07:26 AM)Himagain Wrote: [ -> ]First, I am astounded that a LaRouchie article would be quoted for any reason on a trad Catholic forum, except for a good laugh. 
I think we gain similar insight into Trad (or any other kind of actual) Catholicism at rense.com, and the laughs are about as good there. 

Also, I was surprised that the article received such a polite response here at FE. 
Perhaps many readers just considered it too far out to merit a response, and I'm just being so indiscreet as to draw attention to what should be ignored. 
But hey, funny is funny, and Larouchies finding a fascist, anti-JPII conspiracy at Seton/Christendom is hilarious for anyone in the know. 


For me, this can't simply explained by insanity - even while I agree the article IS insane ...

It is very hard for me to explain, but I have this read this article several times over the years and and am haunted by it. In addition to sheer lunacy, the article does I believe contain a lot of systematic research, closely reading old book journals published by Christendom, looking for things to smear them with. The sheer extent of it is extraordinary. Why would anyone go to this length unless they were upset/scared by Christendom, Seton etc?

As I say the article is long and complex, nasty and nauseating. But I want to pull a few "highlights" from it, with some additional comments from myself. This will give people both a kind of simply entry/or (admittedly very, very poor) Cliff's notes into it ... and I hope it may lead to further illuminating comment.

Personally, I am very grateful for the illuminating comments in this thread from Cetil, Jacob and numerous others.

So, "highlights" - you may want to be prepared to be a bit sick ... I'm also adding some bold.

From Who is Snuffing Your Neighbour's Kittens?

Quote:In the course of the last several months, a team of EIR reporters has been conducting an intensive national-security investigation into what has been shown to be a longstanding intelligence operation targetting the political association of Lyndon LaRouche. This investigation ... has uncovered a large chunk of the evidence exposing a fascist, anti-Semitic, anti-American network, which has been operating under the cover of the Catholic Church in the Arlington Diocese of Northern Virginia. This network is centered in Christendom College in Front Royal, St. Catherine of Siena parish in Great Falls, and an associated movement of private, nominally Catholic schools.

Comment: Mr Kittens - as I shall call the author regularly calls any form of traditional Catholicism "nominal". It is not the real form of ecumenical Catholicism of Vatican II, according to Mr Kittens.


From Who is Snuffing Your Neighbour's Kittens?
Quote:This network's operations are aimed not only against Lyndon LaRouche; they are, for similar motives, conducted against the ecumenical mission of Pope John Paul II, and also an important threat to the security of the U.S.A.

...

this network, aimed at the throat of the Washington, D.C. Federal bureaucracy, remains an integral part of a major threat to the system of constitutional government of the United States .... As this report will show, this same network not only includes a nasty nest of pro-fascist, nominally Catholic philosophical gnostics; but, we will emphasize, that nest is only one integral part of a much broader collection of kindred sorts of both nominally Protestant, and also nominally what-not theological and political perversities.


Comment: "Nominally Protestant" ... the article will go on to claim something like a grand coalition of conspiracy, including everything from Christendom College Catholics, Opus Dei, Confederates of the deep South, conservative Protestants and the good Lord only knows what else ... Bigfoot and the Loch Ness monster, maybe :)


From Who is Snuffing Your Neighbour's Kittens?
Quote:This universal-fascist penetration of Catholic and other circles inside the U.S.A., as typified by the relevant associates of Christendom College, is a reflection of an ideological axis, the current Brzezinski-Huntington drive for a global "Clash of Civilizations" war. The fact that Catholic elements of this gnostic utopian network are not only situated within the Dulles family legacy's Washington, D.C. "Beltway," but are being used for deep penetration of the highest levels of Federal government institutions, puts this problem in a high-ranking position among the obvious, current internal national-security threats to our nation ....

Our presently ongoing investigation has shown that this operation's penetration of nominally Catholic networks in North America, centers historically on the Carlist network of William F. Buckley, Jr.'s brother-in-law, L. Brent Bozell. The role of the Buckley family intersects the international influence of avowedly fascist, pro-Carlist circles among British converts to Catholicism, such as the notorious cases of avowedly pro-fascist G.K. Chesterton and Hilaire Belloc (see box on "Distributism").

Bozell formed the Society for the Christian Commonwealth (SCC) in Warrenton, Va. and published Triumph magazine from 1966 until 1976, at which time his long-simmering insanity resulted in the publication's demise.

As you will see, this network, although nominally Catholic, is closely tied to the most wild-eyed right-wing, fundamentalist Protestants, such as Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, to William Yandell Elliott's Nashville Agrarians, to the pro-Mussolini "distributist" circles of G.K. Chesterton and Hilaire Belloc; and is thoroughly committed to the Mont Pelerin Society, Heritage Foundation, and American Enterprise Institute, with their adoption of Adam Smith's gnostic "free trade" as, implicitly, an article of religious faith. 


From Who is Snuffing Your Neighbour's Kittens?
Quote:To understand Christendom College today, we must trace its fascist roots through examining the cases of Bozell's and Buckley's Society for the Christian Commonwealth (SCC), and Triumph magazine.

What is currently known about the origin of this fascist movement is that in the aftermath of Vatican II, and in large part in opposition to the reforms implemented in that council, L. Brent Bozell created the SCC, which began publishing Triumph in 1966.

Among the leading individuals associated with this movement was Dr. Frederick Wilhelmsen of the University of Dallas. Wilhelmsen was an adviser and contributor to neo-Confederate Southern Partisan (see box) until his death in 1996; he was also knighted in 1975, by Prince Javier de Borbón Parma, for having smuggled the exiled Carlist pretender to the Spanish throne back into Spain from France. He was Christendom College founder Warren Carroll's mentor and was described as the "Don of philosophy and political science at the University of Dallas." He was particularly close to the shy Pretender to the Austro-Hungarian Empire, Otto von Hapsburg, who was listed as a contributor to Triumph from the beginning.

From at least 1970-73, the SCC sponsored two-month-long seminars in Madrid, Spain during July and August at El Escorial, the palace of King Philip II (1556-98). These seminars, which were also attended by Wilhelmsen's daughter Alexandra and by Warren H. Carroll and his wife, Anne Westhoff Carroll, were advertised in Triumph as follows: "The theological and philosophical roots of Western Christendom. With special emphasis on Spanish history—the Reconquest, the Escorial and Trent, the Crusade against Communism in 1936-39...."

Comment: I think this is mostly factual ... and VERY interesting to me. If anyone can say more as to Wilhelmsen's connection to Otto von Habsburg especially, I would be interested.

The article then goes into further lunacy by suggesting all this is tied to the Kennedy Assassination. Here is the first of a number of references to it:

From Who is Snuffing Your Neighbour's Kittens?
Quote:From the standpoint of the current attempted coup d'état beginning Sept. 11, it should be noted that Warren H. Carroll, who worked briefly for the CIA in 1959-60, was part of the milieu of the Kennedy assassination prior to the creation of the SCC.

In 1963, Carroll was a script writer for a Dallas-based radio show called "Lifeline," funded by H.L. Hunt, and a member of Conservatives U.S.A. (CUSA). The head of CUSA in Dallas at the time was Robert Morris, who was formerly chief counsel for Sen. Joe McCarthy, thus working side-by-side with Roy Cohn. By 1963, Morris was President of the University of Dallas. CUSA took out the famous ad in a Dallas newspaper the day Kennedy was shot, which read: "Kennedy, Wanted for Treason," with a black obituary border. Days later, a script written by Carroll on "Heroism" was found, according to the Warren Commission Report, in the car of Jack Ruby the day he killed Oswald.


From Who is Snuffing Your Neighbour's Kittens?
Quote:Many years later, when King Juan Carlos of Spain failed to veto a law legalizing abortion in Spain, Wilhelmsen wrote an article in the Winter 1990 issue of Faith and Reason, published by Christendom Press, entitled, "The Dilemma of the Spanish Right: The Case of Abortion," in which he proposed that the King carry out a military coup against the constitution: "If Juan Carlos had defied the government and the constitution by calling in the Armed Forces to back him, what would have happened? ... Don Juan Carlos would have appeared before the entire Christian world as a Catholic king and knight whose sword was at the service of the unborn."

Comment: I can imagine this bit is true ... and is again an example of the very close attention Mr Kittens is paying to old article from Christendom.

Then the article goes onto the Seton programme - and Sedevacantism is brought in ...


From Who is Snuffing Your Neighbour's Kittens?
Quote:But the creation of Christendom College was only one part of an expanding movement to take over the Catholic Church in Northern Virginia and beyond, modelled on the methods of the fascist Carlist movement in 1930s Spain. Warren Carroll's wife, Anne Westhoff Carroll, has been a kind of cult-figure for this school movement.

Anne Carroll is a Carlist ideologue in her own right. In fact she worked for Triumph magazine beginning in 1970, before Warren Carroll joined her at the magazine in 1973. She was raised as a Catholic, whereas he has described himself as having been a Deist before his conversion. They met in 1962 and married in 1968, at which point he converted to Catholicism. She, like most fascists, is an intellectual light-weight, but is by no means an insignificant also-ran in these gnostic circles.

In March 1973, Anne Carroll wrote an article in Triumph, which laid out her perspective for the creation of what she called private Catholic "Apostolic Schools." In this aricle, she wrote that the school community should see itself "just as does the community of contemplative nuns or the regiment of soldiers or the artisans' guild in a Christian society....

"They will learn the almost unknown stories of the great Catholic heroes (ask any Catholic child—including those attending parochial school—if he knows of Red Hugh O'Donnell or Don Juan of Austria)." The latter reputedly won the Battle of Lepanto against the Turks in 1571, which the Carlist cults' revisionist theory of history regards as the most important event in the modern history of the human species.

...

This early experiment was to become the pilot project for the creation of an expanding number of "Catholic" elementary and high schools in Northern Virginia, including Seton High School in Manassas, Annunciation Academy in Reston, and St. John Bosco in Leesburg.

Although Seton High School has been in existence for some time, Annunciation received its impetus only in March 1994, when a member of a schism from the Catholic Church, Gerry Matatics, was invited to speak at St. Catherine of Siena on the topic of creating private "Catholic" schools. St. John Bosco High School was a later extension of Annunciation.

According to eyewitness reports of an active participant, after Matatics' March 1994 speech, a number of "moms" at St. Catherine's decided to create a private elementary school, initially in Vienna, Virginia and now in Reston, called Annunciation Academy. ...

After only a year or so of operation, there was a parents' revolt against Terreri. In stepped Anne Carroll, as member of a new board of directors established to quell the parental revolt. Through January 2002, a number of changes were made at Annunciation Academy, consolidating the control over the school by the Carrolls. Warren Carroll joined the board and another Christendom College figure, J. Laurence McCarty, became its chairman. Also appointed was Joseph Sobran.

Both Joseph Sobran and Anne Carroll are associated with an organization called the Christian-Islamic Forum, located in Burke, Virginia.

Comment: And now here comes Opus Dei ...

From Who is Snuffing Your Neighbour's Kittens?
Quote:As we have seen, the entire private "Catholic" school movement was initiated by parishioners at St. Catherine and is under the control and direction of Christendom College-centered former members of the Society of the Christian Commonwealth, and is the realization of the original Triumph magazine Carlist guild perspective.

This operation has been flanked by a number of key priests centered at St. Catherine of Siena; St. Lawrence Church in Franconia, Virginia, St. Agnes in Arlington and Our Lady of Hope in Potomac Falls, Virginia. The current pastor at St. Catherine is Rev. Franklyn McAfee, who previously was at St. Lawrence the Martyr along with Reverend Most. McAfee is a member of Opus Dei, the same organization which also claims Robert Hanssen and his wife as members. McAfee was also the president of Notre Dame Institute of Catechetics. Father Most, who died in 1999, was also a member of the faculty of the Notre Dame Institute beginning in the late 1980s and taught theology at Anne Carroll's Seton High School. Christendom College press publishes three of his books ...

The other connection between Hanssen and the Christendom College crowd is a network which penetrates Opus Dei. As reported above, Reverend McAfee is a publicly declared member of Opus Dei, as is Hanssen. One of Hanssen's daughters, Susan Hanssen, is at the University of Dallas, where she lives at the Opus Dei residence. She spent the year 2000 in the United Kingdom studying G.K. Chesterton. Frederick Wilhelmsen taught for four years at the University of Navarra in Pamplona, Spain, which is an Opus Dei university. Alexandra Wilhelmsen received her PhD from this same Opus Dei university.

Comment: My comments are pretty much finished for now. I am just going to paste in some more very lengthy, very weird material ...

I will simply add some bold, particularly to the confederacy stuff which is another part of Mr Kitten's vast grand conspiracy coalition...


From Who is Snuffing Your Neighbour's Kittens?
Quote:The fact that the Christendom-based little schools/home-schooling octopus is spreading fascist indoctrination into those programs is exposed by reference to another book in the series, Anne Carroll's Christ and the Americas. This book is used at the Seton School and is indicative of the anti-American, Carlist propaganda, which any school associated with the Carrolls' circle employs, whether or not this particular book is employed explicitly within the classroom.

Christ and the Americas defends Spain against all criticism by a transparent sophistry which could deceive only an illiterate. Anne Carroll defends Spain against all unpleasant evidence concerning its bloody history during the 16th and early 17th Centuries, by blaming all unpleasant facts on "the Black Legend": "The Black Legend is the common belief, fostered by propaganda from primarily English and Dutch sources, that Spaniards are unusually cruel, greedy and depraved, that in nearly every controversy Spain represents the wrong side. The Black Legend came to be accepted, especially in English-speaking countries, because the most widely read documents about Spain were written by her mortal enemies: The English and the Dutch."

Does she really believe what she imputes to the Black Legend? Or, is she, once again, a witting liar, also on this account? Neither of the Carrolls, it must be repeated, is noted for scholarly accuracy or attention to historical truth.

...

Anne Carroll reveals the true purpose behind her reference to the Black Legend, by using it to attack the constitutional principles of the United States republic. ...

Carroll proceeds from the subject of the Black Legend, to weave it into a virtually treasonous attack on the very existence of the United States. She attacks the Declaration of Independence, claiming that it reflects the "liberal" philosophy of Jefferson. "The opening section set forth his liberal philosophy. He stated that governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed (not from God, not from traditions, not by inheritance, but from the people themselves); all authority comes from them.... It is usually opposed to hereditary monarchy. It emphasizes that men should be free to do whatever they want in moral matters and that political authority comes from the people themselves who should be free to overthrow existing governments—by violence if necessary—and to set up new governments based on the will of the majority, as interpreted and guided by intellectual leaders."

...

Carroll continues with a characteristically gnostic argument: "We Americans are so used to thinking that governmental authority should come from the people, that we might see nothing wrong with the political ramifications of Liberalism. We need to be reminded that all authority comes from God, and if authority is not exercised in harmony with God's law, then it is not legitimate. The standard is not, 'Is it the will of the people?' but, 'Is it the will of God?' "
...

Not only does this leading "intellectual" of the home-schools and "Catholic little schools" attack and outright falsify the Declaration of Independence, but also the U.S. Constitution. ...

Presumably, the U.S. Confederate Constitution, which does mention God, would be more to her liking. What she fundamentally rejects, is the notion of representative government as opposed to a theocracy. Moreover, she lies, claiming that the Declaration of Independence and U.S. Constitution are not based on Divine or Natural Law. Rather, like her co-thinker, Justice Scalia, she denies the existence of natural law, and, just as he attacks Pope John Paul II's opposition to death sentences from a feudalist standpoint, so does she.

...

She attacks the first U.S. Catholic Bishop, John Carroll, for accepting the separation of church and state, i.e., rejecting a theocratic view: "Because of his delight that Catholics were not persecuted by the U.S. government, he perhaps did not see the danger that this policy had of leading to religious indifferentism (the belief that one religion is as good as another, or even to the belief that a person is free to choose to practice no religion at all) and to the belief that the Church should not interfere in politics." Once again, the silly populist parades her antic whims as if they were solemn facts.

From this same standpoint, making up her alleged "facts" as she waddles, goose-like, down her pathway, she attacks the Monroe Doctrine: "Both Monroe and Adams were pro-revolt and anti-Spain, a position understandable in Monroe, who was a protégé of Jefferson, but more difficult to understand in the son of John Adams, who had stood virtually alone among U.S. leaders in opposing the French Revolution. Perhaps Adams saw the Latin American countries as reflections of the U.S. in asserting a tradition of self-government against a tyrannical monarch, a false view which has been commonly held by Americans ever since."

While her argument on this point might be brushed aside as an example of a silly, and very illiterate goose's efforts to write a page in history, the significance of this passage is the hatred against the very existence of the United States which she, like her understudy Quijano—who is also habituated to using antic whims as "facts"—has expressed openly since no later than September 1990.

It should come as no surprise that Anne Carroll supports Maximilian Hapsburg against President Benito Juarez in Mexico: "The United States had supported Juarez and denounced Maximilian because Juarez boasted of his adherence to Liberalism and democracy. But he set up a far tighter control over the country than the so-called autocrat, Maximilian, had done."

After all, Maximilian was a Hapsburg, one of her gushing Romantic's favorites, and made dictator of Mexico by a Napoleon III who was, like his uncle—and like Anne Carroll's Northern Virginia co-thinkers—a fascist. Fernando Quijano's denunciations of Juarez to LaRouche's associates in Mexico are essentially copies of Carroll's and probably did originate with her. She supports the fascists on the grounds of her perception that they are not liberal.

...

Given that Warren Carroll was recruited into Conservatives U.S.A. by Robert Morris, President of the University of Dallas, who was the former Chief Counsel for Sen. Joseph McCarthy, it should also be no surprise that Anne Carroll defends McCarthy: "The members of the leadership elite of America, although relatively few were actual Communists, saw no strong reason for opposing Communism because they had abandoned Christian truth. These were the men McCarthy fought; these were the men who fought him." "... [H]e died on May 2, 1957, the victim of an irrational hatred which has not entirely disappeared even forty years later."

In this context, it should also be noted that Triumph magazine often advertised the book McCarthy and His Enemies by William F. Buckley, Jr. and L. Brent Bozell, in which ads it was stated that the book "sustains McCarthy's basic thesis."

Her comments on the assassination of John F. Kennedy are also revealing. Remember that Conservatives U.S.A. took out an ad in a Dallas paper accusing Kennedy of treason the day he was assassinated and that the script of a radio show on "Heroism" written by her husband, Warren, was found in Jack Ruby's car the day he assassinated Lee Harvey Oswald.

"In the aftermath of the assassination," writes Carroll, "Americans indulged in an orgy of grief, glorifying Kennedy, his family and everything he had done.

"Since Kennedy was a liberal, and since Dallas was a conservative city, conservatives were seen as somehow to blame for the President's death, even though Oswald was a Communist sympathizer."

This reference to Kennedy is very ugly stuff, considering the fact that some of the international circles proven to have been involved in at least the politically motivated targetting, as distinguished from the act of shooting, of President Kennedy—the same circles of Carlists and others who were backers of the 1962 effort, based partly in fascist Spain, to assassinate France's President Charles de Gaulle—were part of the same radical utopian military and intelligence factions to which the Christendom-linked types adhere ideologically today. ...

The "religious" operations against Lyndon LaRouche's movement from Northern Virginia have involved not only nominal Catholics who are Carlist fascists, but also outright schismatics from the Catholic Church.

Christendom College/St. Catherine of Siena have tried to maintain the cover of being the true believers and supporters of Pope John Paul II. The Mission Statement of Christendom College, for example, states that the college is "institutionally committed to the Magisterium of the Roman Catholic Church."

Nonetheless, we find them often sleeping in the same political-theological beds with well-known individuals who are active schismatics from the Catholic Church and against the Pope; prominently, individuals connected to the schismatic group called The Remnant, based in Minnesota.

Typical are two of the leading individuals promoted by this group, Solange Strong Hertz of Leesburg, Va., and Gerry Matatics. Mrs. Hertz has also been involved in the targetting of leading associates of LaRouche in Northern Virginia, and as well as being an opponent of Pope John Paul II, she viciously opposes those principles LaRouche most stands for. A glance at her writings will make clear the problem they represent.

Solange Hertz also wrote prolifically for Bozell's Triumph magazine. From April 1972 to July 1973, Triumph published eight of her articles: "Among Women" (April 1972); "The Woman and Her Home: I. The Home as Divine Mystery" (May 1972); "The Woman and her Home: II. The Housewife's Vocation According to St. Paul" (June 1972); "The Crack in the Board" (July 1972); "Thoughts on the Working Mother: The Housewife as Martyr" (October 1972); "Walls, Roof and Door: The Home as Sanctuary" (January 1973); "A Millstone from Above: The Housewife as Guerrilla" (April 1973); and "D'abord, The Home: Mama's Manifesto" (July 1973).

Over the next 20 years, she published the following books: The Strange Spirit of '76, 1976; The Occult Franklin, 1983; Recanting Galileo, 1992; Star Spangled Heresy: Americanism, 1993; Utopia: Nowhere—Now Here, 1995; Beyond Politics: A Meta-Political View of History.

Hertz's books are published by Veritas Press in Santa Monica, California and Little Jon Publications in Los Angeles. The latter also produces The New Triumph, whose editor is Gary Potter. In 1966, Potter was the assistant editor of the original Triumph magazine. One of the three contributors to The New Triumph is Charles A. Coulombe ...


On the subject of the U.S. Civil War
, Hertz's fascist affinities are portrayed in dayglo colors. She writes: "one aspect of the Civil War which has been studiously ignored by establishment historians is its character as a war of religion. Protestants found themselves pitted against Catholics and Anglo-Catholics in a death struggle over two incompatible ways of life. The South retained far more vestiges of the old hieratic Christendom than did the North.... The bulk of American Catholics at that period of our history were Southerners.... Even in the North most Catholics were Southern sympathizers.... Catholic priests not tainted with Americanism ... had no hesitation in identifying the Faith with the Southern cause." "Furthermore the Confederate flag, the beloved 'Stars and Bars,' forms a cross, an emblem glaringly absent from all official U.S. iconography."

Hertz veers close to cheering over the 1863 New York draft riots, organized on behalf of the Confederacy, and even touches issues bearing upon accomplices in the assassination of President Abraham Lincoln, when she writes: "there is no getting around the fact that the only foreign power to recognize the Confederacy and receive its envoys was the Vatican.... How much of the Union strategy Lucifer may have worked out with the help of his underlings can't be ascertained, but it's history that in 1864 the tide turned irrevocably against the South, and the only movement even approaching a counter-revolution in the U.S. was thrown decisively off course."

This pro-Confederacy view was also the predominant one expressed in Triumph magazine. In the May 1971 issue, for example, Mel Bradford wrote an article entitled, "Lincoln's New Frontier: A Rhetoric for Continuing Revolution." Bradford maintained that the "Declaration [of Independence], [Gettysburg] Address and [Battle] Hymn [of the Republic] are therefore epitomies, hallowed by usage ... into a millennialist and gnostic injunction to the country (and indeed the species) at large." The "of, by, and for" formula is characterized as a millenarian blasphemy.

H.L. Weatherby's review of "The Southern Tradition at Bay" by Richard Weaver in the April 1969 issue of Triumph reflected the same pro-Confederate, Carlist view of Catholicism: "[T]hough most Southerners have never understood the fact (Allen Tate is a notable exception), the source of the feudalism, the chivalry, the gentleness, the 'religiousness' which Southerners fought so gallantly to defend is the Catholic Christian vision of civilization. Holy Scripture, The City of God, the Summa—these are our true metaphysical grounds."

So much, Triumph. Now, again, Solange Hertz: "To paraphrase Lincoln's Gettysburg Address, no 'nation so conceived or so dedicated can long endure,' for 'government of the people, by the people, for the people' must inevitably 'perish from the earth.' " If she were not a self-declared "woman without country," she might be justly considered a potential traitor to the United States ...



What EIR's investigation has uncovered, as we have documented, is nothing other than a fascist cult, which appears to have nearly succeeded in taking over the Arlington Diocese of the Catholic Church in Virginia. This cult is, provably, fascist, anti-Semitic and anti-American. At the same time, its representatives are deeply opposed to Pope John Paul II. Their Carlist belief-structure ultimately has nothing to do with Christianity.


The link for all this, again, is here

https://www.larouchepub.com/other/2002/2...kttns.html
Roger, the dissertation and the book do overlap a great deal.  The book has obviously been edited and given a polish to make it suitable for publication.  I have to admit that I didn't read the dissertation in depth before learning about the book and getting it through the library, so I cannot say for sure if the dissertation is just a "rough draft" of the book.  The author's webpage has his email address.  Maybe email him if you think it appropriate?

As for the LaRouche article, I find it interesting in that it provides a lot of factual details and excerpts from the Christendom people thanks to the research done by its author and his investigators, but beyond that, I don't give its conspiracy theories much thought.  Frankly, I find it a little tame compared to other stuff I've read on the Web.

Thanks for culling it for relevant facts so I don't have to.  :)
I think Christendom is a result of a rare collaborative combination of different Catholic elements with good, sensible people, trads, Opus Dei, orthodox diocesan clergy, etc. It is what we will get when we collaborate and work together with the best elements of each side.

I plan to send my children there when they are old enough. (ways to go yet!)
(11-22-2013, 02:06 PM)Roger Buck Wrote: [ -> ]So far I have hesitated to cite very much from Mr Kittens' long, complex article about the so-called "fascists" at Christendom College. It is nasty indeed and could offend people.

I am also aware of many people thinking: what's the point of this? As HimAgain wrote long ago:

[quote='Himagain' pid='738547' dateline='1302780368']
First, I am astounded that a LaRouchie article would be quoted for any reason on a trad Catholic forum, except for a good laugh. 
I think we gain similar insight into Trad (or any other kind of actual) Catholicism at rense.com, and the laughs are about as good there. 

Also, I was surprised that the article received such a polite response here at FE. 
Perhaps many readers just considered it too far out to merit a response, and I'm just being so indiscreet as to draw attention to what should be ignored. 
But hey, funny is funny, and Larouchies finding a fascist, anti-JPII conspiracy at Seton/Christendom is hilarious for anyone in the know. 


For me, this can't simply explained by insanity - even while I agree the article IS insane ...

It is very hard for me to explain, but I have this read this article several times over the years and and am haunted by it. In addition to sheer lunacy, the article does I believe contain a lot of systematic research, closely reading old book journals published by Christendom, looking for things to smear them with. The sheer extent of it is extraordinary. Why would anyone go to this length unless they were upset/scared by Christendom, Seton etc?

As I say the article is long and complex, nasty and nauseating. But I want to pull a few "highlights" from it, with some additional comments from myself. This will give people both a kind of simply entry/or (admittedly very, very poor) Cliff's notes into it ... and I hope it may lead to further illuminating comment.

Personally, I am very grateful for the illuminating comments in this thread from Cetil, Jacob and numerous others.

So, "highlights" - you may want to be prepared to be a bit sick ... I'm also adding some bold.

From Who is Snuffing Your Neighbour's Kittens?

end of [quote]

Roger,
  I thought I'd respond again without going through that entire INSANE Larouchian RANT but would just point out some obvious fallacies in the "research" as one who knew Warren Carroll and his wife quite well. For one, describing Mrs. Carroll as a "fascist" is simply hilarious. Mrs. Carroll was a very shy self effacing woman who seldom ever wanted to be the center of attention and she never really seemed comfortable as a public speaker. Her whole life was pretty much dedicated to the Seton High  School she founded in Manassas Virginia and supporting her husband and his work at Christendom College. She was very Catholic, plain and simple. Conservative yes, but both she and her husband parted company with the conservative movement if and when it conflicted with Catholic teaching. One example of that was the atomic bombings of Japan which she and her husband always maintained were a great violation of Catholic teaching. This position of their cost them some support from many conservatives who thought otherwise. But the Catholic position was what mattered first and foremost. Both sympathized with Franco and his cause but Dr. Carroll told me once that he found Franco's Catholicism deficient in some areas especially with regard to the social teachings. That is not a position that would please fascists. As to Father William Most there is some serious disinformation in the article. Father Most was a wonderful and brilliant theologian but he did not ever teach at Seton. He was ordained for the diocese of Dubuque and taught at Loras College in Dubuque his entire career. Christendom very much wanted him to come and teach there but his bishop was never friendly to that idea. As to Opus Dei, I can state categorically that there was no Opus Dei influence there and I don't think there is much now. Father McAfee may have belonged to Opus Dei (that's news to me) but he never taught at the school either.

C.
First thank you, Jacob - as for

(11-22-2013, 03:57 PM)Jacob Wrote: [ -> ]Frankly, I find it a little tame compared to other stuff I've read on the Web.

See my comment below ...


(11-24-2013, 07:19 AM)Cetil Wrote: [ -> ]Roger,
  I thought I'd respond again without going through that entire INSANE Larouchian RANT but would just point out some obvious fallacies in the "research" as one who knew Warren Carroll and his wife quite well. For one, describing Mrs. Carroll as a "fascist" is simply hilarious. Mrs. Carroll was a very shy self effacing woman who seldom ever wanted to be the center of attention and she never really seemed comfortable as a public speaker. Her whole life was pretty much dedicated to the Seton High  School she founded in Manassas Virginia and supporting her husband and his work at Christendom College. She was very Catholic, plain and simple. Conservative yes, but both she and her husband parted company with the conservative movement if and when it conflicted with Catholic teaching. One example of that was the atomic bombings of Japan which she and her husband always maintained were a great violation of Catholic teaching. This position of their cost them some support from many conservatives who thought otherwise. But the Catholic position was what mattered first and foremost. Both sympathized with Franco and his cause but Dr. Carroll told me once that he found Franco's Catholicism deficient in some areas especially with regard to the social teachings. That is not a position that would please fascists. As to Father William Most there is some serious disinformation in the article. Father Most was a wonderful and brilliant theologian but he did not ever teach at Seton. He was ordained for the diocese of Dubuque and taught at Loras College in Dubuque his entire career. Christendom very much wanted him to come and teach there but his bishop was never friendly to that idea. As to Opus Dei, I can state categorically that there was no Opus Dei influence there and I don't think there is much now. Father McAfee may have belonged to Opus Dei (that's news to me) but he never taught at the school either.

C.

Cetil, thank you for all of this. I value your contributions as one who has known the Carrolls, whom I admire and feel very drawn to. (I am readng books from both of them.) If you had time/ energy to comment, I'd be curious if you have spent time in Front Royal and what the community there seems like to you if you do ... (If I ever cross the Atlantic again, I hope to get there.)

I know the article is filled with misinformation and it may baffle people why I am so interested.

The reasons are complex. To Jacob it may seem "tame". To you, it is a RANT in capital letters ...

I remain baffled. It seems to me more than just a rant and that it distinguishes itself from much more insane (i.e .less "tame" stuff) in this ... it is so systematic and methodical.

Having read it maybe 5 times now, it seems to me that someone indeed even some people have spent not just hours ... but days, weeks, month even years of their lives digging through masses of writing, selecting old obscure quotes etc etc etc ...

I think Cetil, you may not like my using the word "research". I wish I could think of a less dignified word. But although it is twisted research, it is meticulous ...

I just don't understand why anyone would expend SO MUCH effort on this ...

Unless there was something truly radical - in the best sense of that term! - creative and wonderful going on in the Arlington diocese, which clearly threatens them ...

What that radical, creative, wonderful thing really is fascinates me ...

Also thanks Maldon:

(11-24-2013, 02:49 AM)maldon Wrote: [ -> ]I think Christendom is a result of a rare collaborative combination of different Catholic elements with good, sensible people, trads, Opus Dei, orthodox diocesan clergy, etc. It is what we will get when we collaborate and work together with the best elements of each side.

I plan to send my children there when they are old enough. (ways to go yet!)

This is a very good point I think. Such collaboration is to be welcomed indeed. Also if you have first hand experience of Front Royal, I would love to hear more as I said to Cetil.


(11-24-2013, 02:39 PM)Roger Buck Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-24-2013, 07:19 AM)Cetil Wrote: [ -> ]

Cetil, thank you for all of this. I value your contributions as one who has known the Carrolls, whom I admire and feel very drawn to. (I am readng books from both of them.) If you had time/ energy to comment, I'd be curious if you have spent time in Front Royal and what the community there seems like to you if you do ... (If I ever cross the Atlantic again, I hope to get there.)

I know the article is filled with misinformation and it may baffle people why I am so interested.

The reasons are complex. To Jacob it may seem "tame". To you, it is a RANT in capital letters ...

I remain baffled. It seems to me more than just a rant and that it distinguishes itself from much more insane (i.e .less "tame" stuff) in this ... it is so systematic and methodical.

Having read it maybe 5 times now, it seems to me that someone indeed even some people have spent not just hours ... but days, weeks, month even years of their lives digging through masses of writing, selecting old obscure quotes etc etc etc ...

I think Cetil, you may not like my using the word "research". I wish I could think of a less dignified word. But although it is twisted research, it is meticulous ...

I just don't understand why anyone would expend SO MUCH effort on this ...

Unless there was something truly radical - in the best sense of that term! - creative and wonderful going on in the Arlington diocese, which clearly threatens them ...

What that radical, creative, wonderful thing really is fascinates me ...

Sorry Roger didn't meant to pop off at you. I would only point out that the Larouchies may seem methodical and systematic at times but I think the base of it all is their paranoia. They have imagined all sorts of threats to themselves that don't really exist. But a cult uses that tactic to keep the members fearful and in line with policy. I put "research" in quotes because of the errors they made. I know Christendom was as surprised as anyone at Larouche's attacks but then I imagine Queen Elizabeth was also surprised to find  herself described as a major player in the international drug trade! Yes, I did live in the Front Royal community for some time and there are lots of good Catholics there and it is worth visiting. But any community is not without its divisions and problems so it's a long way from being a utopia. Any community is going to have factions. Christendom has a beautiful campus and continues to grow.

C. 
(11-24-2013, 06:37 PM)Cetil Wrote: [ -> ]Sorry Roger didn't meant to pop off at you. I would only point out that the Larouchies may seem methodical and systematic at times but I think the base of it all is their paranoia. They have imagined all sorts of threats to themselves that don't really exist. But a cult uses that tactic to keep the members fearful and in line with policy. I put "research" in quotes because of the errors they made. I know Christendom was as surprised as anyone at Larouche's attacks but then I imagine Queen Elizabeth was also surprised to find  herself described as a major player in the international drug trade! Yes, I did live in the Front Royal community for some time and there are lots of good Catholics there and it is worth visiting. But any community is not without its divisions and problems so it's a long way from being a utopia. Any community is going to have factions. Christendom has a beautiful campus and continues to grow.

C. 

Cetil, I am truly grateful for this and all your comments here.

I am going to try to say something somewhat inexpressible ... will not make much sense, I fear.

I hear you that it is not utopia and we are, of course, all very fallen. Yet this place I have never been to means so much to me. This place that makes Mr. Kittens paranoid ... yes paranoia is the right word I think.

I find it all so very strange. Nearly 43 years ago Brent Bozell moves the Triumph offices to this small town in Virginia ... not I think, naturally Catholic at all, but very Protestant like the rest of the South. At least, back in 1970 ...

And now there is vibrant, growing college there ...There is this diocese which informed observers like P.T.K.P. who I invoked years ago in this thread  see as one of the most vibrant dioceses TLM wise in the world ... And the Catholic proportion of the Arlington diocese steadily grows ...

I guess it would have been a pretty sleepy diocese in 1970.

I am haunted, haunted by this place. What gives Mr. Kittens nightmares, gives me hope and meaning.

You are fortunate indeed to have known the Carrolls and been part of this, I think Cetil, even if it is not utopia.

I wonder what it will be like in another 43 years?

I wonder if you have had the grace of having been witness to what may turn out to be one of the foremost places of Catholic culture in North America ...

43 years from now or 100 or 200? I am haunted. To come back to Jacob, somehow I am going get hold of that  Popowski book somehow ... but really I wish he or someone else would write a companion volume as to what happened in Front Royal after Triumph folded.

Haunted ... would be grateful for anything else you (or anyone else) wanted to say about this place that haunts my soul, Front Royal, Virginia ...

Roger, perhaps you'll find interesting the population statistics of Arlington from Catholic Hierarchy.org.

http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/diocese/darli.html
(11-26-2013, 02:13 PM)Roger Buck Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-24-2013, 06:37 PM)Cetil Wrote: [ -> ]Sorry Roger didn't meant to pop off at you. I would only point out that the Larouchies may seem methodical and systematic at times but I think the base of it all is their paranoia. They have imagined all sorts of threats to themselves that don't really exist. But a cult uses that tactic to keep the members fearful and in line with policy. I put "research" in quotes because of the errors they made. I know Christendom was as surprised as anyone at Larouche's attacks but then I imagine Queen Elizabeth was also surprised to find  herself described as a major player in the international drug trade! Yes, I did live in the Front Royal community for some time and there are lots of good Catholics there and it is worth visiting. But any community is not without its divisions and problems so it's a long way from being a utopia. Any community is going to have factions. Christendom has a beautiful campus and continues to grow.

C. 

Cetil, I am truly grateful for this and all your comments here.

I am going to try to say something somewhat inexpressible ... will not make much sense, I fear.

I hear you that it is not utopia and we are, of course, all very fallen. Yet this place I have never been to means so much to me. This place that makes Mr. Kittens paranoid ... yes paranoia is the right word I think.

I find it all so very strange. Nearly 43 years ago Brent Bozell moves the Triumph offices to this small town in Virginia ... not I think, naturally Catholic at all, but very Protestant like the rest of the South. At least, back in 1970 ...

And now there is vibrant, growing college there ...There is this diocese which informed observers like P.T.K.P. who I invoked years ago in this thread  see as one of the most vibrant dioceses TLM wise in the world ... And the Catholic proportion of the Arlington diocese steadily grows ...

I guess it would have been a pretty sleepy diocese in 1970.

I am haunted, haunted by this place. What gives Mr. Kittens nightmares, gives me hope and meaning.

You are fortunate indeed to have known the Carrolls and been part of this, I think Cetil, even if it is not utopia.

I wonder what it will be like in another 43 years?

I wonder if you have had the grace of having been witness to what may turn out to be one of the foremost places of Catholic culture in North America ...

43 years from now or 100 or 200? I am haunted. To come back to Jacob, somehow I am going get hold of that  Popowski book somehow ... but really I wish he or someone else would write a companion volume as to what happened in Front Royal after Triumph folded.

Haunted ... would be grateful for anything else you (or anyone else) wanted to say about this place that haunts my soul, Front Royal, Virginia ...

Hi Roger,
I don't think Bozell ever moved Triumph to Front Royal before the magazine folded in 1976. Christendom itself started out in a very modest building in Triangle Virginia in 1977, about 40 miles south of Washington. They moved to Front Royal in 1979 when the AFL-CIO sold them a property which had been used to train Latin American labor leaders. It is said that George Meany was favorable to the college being Catholic himself and gave the college a good price for the property. I always thought the Arlington diocese was remarkable as they never suffered through a shortage of priests which I think proves that if orthodox teachings are upheld God will bless us with vocations. If not, well the results are obvious in other dioceses. Arlington was blessed to have Bishop Welsh at the time and he was friendly to the college. Dr. Carroll thought the school should never grow beyond 500 students or it would lose some of the community spirit he wanted it to have. They are currently very close to that target of 500. I hope the Catholic community there will continue to grow and flourish in the years ahead. The original campus bears little resemblance to what was there in 1979. They now have a beautiful chapel, dining hall, new gymnasium and new library as well as new dormitories. Dr. Carroll was a man of deep faith and worked tirelessly to preserve the college with little regard for himself or his role. He stepped aside as president when he realized it was time for a change. I have little doubt that his self sacrifice sustained the place when others might easily have abandoned what often seemed a daunting and difficult task. The school suffered numerous financial reverses and other disappointments and there were at times some very bitter and divisive issues to contend with. But it survived.  Watching that I realized this must be God's will as one might easily have concluded more than once that it was going to collapse. The Arlington diocese itself was carved out of the Richmond diocese in 1974 as it is said Rome was none too pleased with what Bishop Walter Sullivan was doing with  Richmond, at that time one of the most liberal bishops around. Whatever the case the results were I think very happy for the Church.
Front Royal was a very sleepy country town when Christendom arrived there but the local folk were always so friendly and kind to myself and the rest of us despite most of them being Baptist or other Protestants one could not help but be charmed with the place. Much has changed now as Front Royal became one of Washingon's extended suburbs with lots of commuters that moved in over the years. New malls and subdivisions have sprung up just about everywhere out there it seems. I will always miss the old town folk of Front Royal who were so open and friendly in those old days. My car broke down a number of times there and always helpful people would stop in minutes to offer assistance. My breakdowns in metro Washington never got that kind of attention! The lifestyle then was not rushed, and Skyline Drive was easy to get to with it's panoramic vistas of the Shenandoah Valley. It seemed almost every night there was a beautiful red sky at sunset. For us it was just fun and relaxing to go up Skyline Drive and watch that spectacular sunset, especially in the summer months.

C.

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