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"...as perhaps when a male prostitute uses a condom, where this can be a first step in the direction of a moralization, a first assumption of responsibility, on the way toward recovering an awareness that not everything is allowed and that one cannot do whatever one wants."

Picture the situation that the pope has introduced to us (incredible!): A nude man is about to commit homosexual sodomy. He'll soon be paid for it. Picture that situation. Yet do we hear any talk from the pope about the utter perversion of this situation? No. What do we hear? That this man, a man on the point of committing a sin that cries out to heaven for vengeance, may actually be heading towards morality rather than to hell. In effect we're being told, by the pope himself, a "conservative" pope, that this man may do evil so that good may come of it. And if this sad pervert may do evil, with good intentions of course, then why can't we?

This world's dissolution is accelerating, friends. Prepare yourselves. I recommend that you listen to these:

http://www.audiosancto.org/sermon/200803...Times.html

And this:

http://www.audiosancto.org/sermon/200703...ement.html

You can listen to the other parts of these missions by clicking on the Lenten Mission Archive link on the right side of those pages.
People are making a big deal about this.

Condoms are things. The moral question is not about things, but decisions.

What he actually wrote/said is very simple. It is minor and I do not really see the point of saying it, but it is there.

He could have written that this man was damned and should be forgotten. Is that better?

Again, the issue is morality and souls, not condom use.

Maybe it is a point that bad people are better at being bad than good people are at being good? I mean, a lapse of evilness in a person making bad decisions is more desirable than even the slightest evil in a person who intends to do good.

We could just gripe about it and say things about the Pope and say the world is going to hell in a tin can, etc and revel in self rightousness, or we could ponder the mercy of God and the evil in our own flesh.
(11-21-2010, 04:00 AM)Jitpring Wrote: [ -> ]"...as perhaps when a male prostitute uses a condom, where this can be a first step in the direction of a moralization, a first assumption of responsibility, on the way toward recovering an awareness that not everything is allowed and that one cannot do whatever one wants."

Picture the situation that the pope has introduced to us (incredible!): A nude man is about to commit homosexual sodomy. He'll soon be paid for it. Picture that situation. Yet do we hear any talk from the pope about the utter perversion of this situation? No. What do we hear? That this man, a man on the point of committing a sin that cries out to heaven for vengeance, may actually be heading towards morality rather than to hell. In effect we're being told, by the pope himself, a "conservative" pope, that this man may do evil so that good may come of it. And if this sad pervert may do evil, with good intentions of course, then why can't we?

This world's dissolution is accelerating, friends. Prepare yourselves. I recommend that you listen to these:

http://www.audiosancto.org/sermon/200803...Times.html

And this:

http://www.audiosancto.org/sermon/200703...ement.html

You can listen to the other parts of these missions by clicking on the Lenten Mission Archive link on the right side of those pages.

Yeah pretty sad.
And another thing what male prostitute is going to care what the Pope says this is just...well...gay.
I dunno, but first step in the direction of a moralization, means to me the man is in mortal sin.
tim
OK so for those that will actually read the Pope's statements it is essentially,,,

In the situation of sodomy, where contraception is irrelevant, a condom might be a better choice than no condom, especially if one knows they are HIV +, but I think that this will be warped and twisted by the media and modernist to try and draw parallels with other situations, of say where a husband is HIV + and the wife isn't and he wants to have sex with her.

Actually if one reads Jones Moral Theology from the 50's it elaborates on all possible scenerios for sexual sins and already deals with some similar situations, but the main problem is that the Holy Father shouldn't be moralizing about gay sex or any such practical question because it will always be warped and used  to justify sin.

Leave details to the priest in confession and just deal with basic principles for moral guidance.
Two men having sex using a condom would commit only one sin. That's the only sin they'd commit, as contraceptive is sinful because it frustrates the procreative aspect of sex which isn't relevant to the discussion concerning a male prostitute. Whereas if a heterosexual couple had sex outside of marriage and used a condom they'd commit two mortal sins. Why the Holy Father spoke about this I don't know, but I don't think he was saying contraceptives are okay to avoid HIV. Just that there's nothing immoral about a piece of rubber in and of itself.