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Full Version: Willful Ignorance over the Pope's Remarks
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(11-21-2010, 02:50 PM)Jitpring Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-21-2010, 02:30 PM)Rosarium Wrote: [ -> ]He is human.

We'd do no better.

No, we probably wouldn't. He's expected to. Eminently so.

Expected, yes, but without cause.
(11-21-2010, 02:28 PM)Jitpring Wrote: [ -> ]Agreed on all counts. The very fact that a pope would give such interviews, would submit himself to such questioning for public consumption, boggles the mind. This ridiculous "opening to the world" must stop. Basta indeed!

You're right - to hell with them all.  Why waste the time?  There was never any command to love our enemies.  The early Christians, who, for example, worked among the pagan Romans during the plague, sacrificing themselves, were very stupid.

It's best to just let the world fend for itself.  Anyone who's not already in the Church is probably doomed anyway - it's safe to assume so.
It boggles the mind that a Pope would take interviews and share his views with the world??
(11-21-2010, 02:51 PM)Rosarium Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-21-2010, 02:50 PM)Jitpring Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-21-2010, 02:30 PM)Rosarium Wrote: [ -> ]He is human.

We'd do no better.

No, we probably wouldn't. He's expected to. Eminently so.

Expected, yes, but without cause.

Without cause? Insane. This is a man of the highest intelligence and of the most rigorous education. To whom much is given, much is expected. Combine these facts with his extensive media experience over many years, with his close knowledge of the dangers of this subject, and with his position as Vicar of Christ and shepherd of Christ's flock, and the conclusion is inescapable: this was imprudence of the worst order.

But was it really just imprudence? After all, these interviews took place some time ago. He could have contacted the publisher and asked it to redact those comments, which he surely knew would be inflammatory, before publication. Did he really mean to open the door to contraception? If not, this situation demands that a statement without any equivocation whatsoever be issued, an ex cathedra statement banning contraception entirely.

(11-21-2010, 03:10 PM)The Catholic Thinker Wrote: [ -> ]You're right - to hell with them all.  Why waste the time?  There was never any command to love our enemies.  The early Christians, who, for example, worked among the pagan Romans during the plague, sacrificing themselves, were very stupid.

It's best to just let the world fend for itself.  Anyone who's not already in the Church is probably doomed anyway - it's safe to assume so.

Cute. I'll go ahead and assume that you see your sophistry.
(11-21-2010, 03:21 PM)Jitpring Wrote: [ -> ]Without cause? Insane. This is a man of the highest intelligence and of the most rigorous education. To whom much is given, much is expected. Combine these facts with his extensive media experience over many years, with his close knowledge of the dangers of this subject, and with his position as Vicar of Christ and shepherd of Christ's flock, and the conclusion is inescapable: this was imprudence of the worst order.

Worst order?

Whatever.

Just make sure you hold all the other Popes to the same standard otherwise, it looks like you just hate the current one instead of all.
(11-21-2010, 03:15 PM)miss_fluffy Wrote: [ -> ]It boggles the mind that a Pope would take interviews and share his views with the world??

You're right. At this point such democratic behavior shouldn't be surprising. The novelties of the Novus Ordo Church never end. Yay!
(11-21-2010, 03:23 PM)Jitpring Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-21-2010, 03:10 PM)The Catholic Thinker Wrote: [ -> ]You're right - to hell with them all.  Why waste the time?  There was never any command to love our enemies.  The early Christians, who, for example, worked among the pagan Romans during the plague, sacrificing themselves, were very stupid.

It's best to just let the world fend for itself.  Anyone who's not already in the Church is probably doomed anyway - it's safe to assume so.

Cute. I'll go ahead and assume that you see your sophistry.

I don't, so explain it.  How is wishing for the Church to be shut away from the world at least a partial denial of its mission, and at least uncharitable in some sense?  How are we not putting ourselves above unbelievers if we do that?  A tempting attitude, I realize, but not the best one.
(11-21-2010, 03:25 PM)Jitpring Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-21-2010, 03:15 PM)miss_fluffy Wrote: [ -> ]It boggles the mind that a Pope would take interviews and share his views with the world??

You're right. At this point such democratic behavior shouldn't be surprising. The novelties of the Novus Ordo Church never end. Yay!

The Pope is our representative to the world.  There's nothing novel or democratic about the Pope taking interviews.  Catholics and non-catholics alike dragging the Pope through the mud at every perceived infraction.. that's what's novel.
(11-21-2010, 03:25 PM)The Catholic Thinker Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-21-2010, 03:23 PM)Jitpring Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-21-2010, 03:10 PM)The Catholic Thinker Wrote: [ -> ]You're right - to hell with them all.  Why waste the time?  There was never any command to love our enemies.  The early Christians, who, for example, worked among the pagan Romans during the plague, sacrificing themselves, were very stupid.

It's best to just let the world fend for itself.  Anyone who's not already in the Church is probably doomed anyway - it's safe to assume so.

Cute. I'll go ahead and assume that you see your sophistry.

I don't, so explain it.  How is wishing for the Church to be shut away from the world at least a partial denial of its mission, and at least uncharitable in some sense?  How are we not putting ourselves above unbelievers if we do that?  A tempting attitude, I realize, but not the best one.

First, loving a sinner demands that he not be confirmed in his sin. One on the point of committing a sin that cries out to heaven - sodomy, for example - needs to hear that unless he repents he's on the road to hell, not taking a step to "moralization." True charity and compassion demand this. On a related note:



Second, to object to a pope's offering interviews for public scrutiny isn't to wish that the Church be shut away from the world. It's simply to ask that a pope behave in accord with the dignity of his station. He's a monarch, not a president. As the Vicar of Christ, his vocation demands that he maintain this station. When the crowds press in on him, he's to fly to the higher ground, as Christ did. When publicly speaking at length, that is, when teaching his flock, he's to speak from the mountaintop, as Christ did. Christ dealt with the people, yes, but He was no populist. He always spoke to them from above. "The crowds were amazed at His teaching; for He was teaching them as one having authority." As must the alter Christus of Christ the King.

This is the true opening to the world demanded from a pope. To open himself to the world, he must flee from the world. He must die to the world and ascend. Only then will the world truly listen to him.

Have you not yet learned that Christianity is fundamentally paradoxical?



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