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Full Version: Willful Ignorance over the Pope's Remarks
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My opinion of this whole situation:

The Holy Father:
[Image: spider-man.jpg]

The Media:
[Image: Jksimmonsjonahmovie.jpg]



I truly believe the pope wants to do what is right, even if he sometimes struggles (don't we all?).  No matter, because the media will do whatever it can to tarnish him.
(11-21-2010, 04:00 PM)Underdog Wrote: [ -> ]My opinion of this whole situation:

The Holy Father:
[Image: spider-man.jpg]

The Media:
[Image: Jksimmonsjonahmovie.jpg]



I truly believe the pope wants to do what is right, even if he sometimes struggles (don't we all?).  No matter, because the media will do whatever it can to tarnish him.

The pope is not a victim here. The mainstream media is overjoyed at his words. They're quite pleased with him.

As for sincerity, it's neither necessary nor sufficient. It's better to have a teacher who insincerely teaches truth than one who sincerely teaches error. Reject this age's wretched sentimentality.
Among trads I expect a general recognition that fuller richer of the TLM is better than the "dumbed down" liturgy of the Novus Ordo.  Yet there are quite a few people here clamouring for "dumbed down" theology.  They are saying, "The Pope should not give real Catholic theology to people because they won't be able to understand it."  That was the very reasoning that, applied to liturgy, got us the NO Mass. 

The tradition of the Catholic Church is that there is some complexity to theology.  People who want something simplistic should be fundamentalists.  Within the Catholic Church we have an intellectual tradition of thinking through ideas and recognizing nuances.  It goes back to our earliest years and runs through the ages: St. Irenaeus, St. Gregory of Nyssa, St. Basil, St. Gregory Nazianzus, St. Augustine, St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Robert Bellarmine, and more than I can list.  The Pope is guilty of talking like a Catholic rather than a fundamentalist.  Guess what.  That is as it should be.
(11-21-2010, 04:16 PM)JayneK Wrote: [ -> ]Among trads I expect a general recognition that fuller richer of the TLM is better than the "dumbed down" liturgy of the Novus Ordo.  Yet there are quite a few people here clamouring for "dumbed down" theology.  They are saying, "The Pope should not give real Catholic theology to people because they won't be able to understand it."  That was the very reasoning that, applied to liturgy, got us the NO Mass. 

The tradition of the Catholic Church is that there is some complexity to theology.  People who want something simplistic should be fundamentalists.  Within the Catholic Church we have an intellectual tradition of thinking through ideas and recognizing nuances.  It goes back to our earliest years and runs through the ages: St. Irenaeus, St. Gregory of Nyssa, St. Basil, St. Gregory Nazianzus, St. Augustine, St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Robert Bellarmine, and more than I can list.  The Pope is guilty of talking like a Catholic rather than a fundamentalist.  Guess what.  That is as it should be.

Well said!
(11-21-2010, 03:28 PM)miss_fluffy Wrote: [ -> ]There's nothing novel or democratic about the Pope taking interviews. 

No. A pope sitting down for interviews with journalists is both thoroughly democratic and novel. First, a true journalist occupies an utterly democratic position. It's no accident that those of the media are called members of the fourth estate. Yet the pope is a monarch. He has no business allowing such interviews. Second, such interviews were unthinkable before the wretched Council of unhappy memory.
(11-21-2010, 04:16 PM)JayneK Wrote: [ -> ]The Pope is guilty of talking like a Catholic rather than a fundamentalist.  Guess what.  That is as it should be.

He's guilty of talking like neither, but like a Modernist.

As for fundamentalism:

"Today, having a clear faith based on the Creed of the Church is often labeled as fundamentalism. Whereas relativism, that is, letting oneself be 'tossed here and there, carried about by every wind of doctrine,' (Eph. 4:14) seems the only attitude that can cope with modern times. We are building a dictatorship of relativism that does not recognize anything as definitive and whose ultimate goal consists solely of one's own ego and desires."

-Joseph Ratzinger, Mass Pro Eligendo Romano Pontifice, Vatican Basilica, 4-18-05
(11-21-2010, 04:07 PM)Jitpring Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-02-1974, 07:36 AM)Underdog Wrote: [ -> ]I truly believe the pope wants to do what is right, even if he sometimes struggles (don't we all?).  No matter, because the media will do whatever it can to tarnish him.

The pope is not a victim here. The mainstream media is overjoyed at his words. They're quite pleased with him.

As for sincerity, it's neither necessary nor sufficient. It's better to have a teacher who insincerely teaches truth than one who sincerely teaches error. Reject this age's wretched sentimentality.

He is indeed a victim of having his words twisted.  And there is  no question of error here, sincere or otherwise.  What he actually said was true Catholic teaching.
(11-21-2010, 04:26 PM)Jitpring Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-21-2010, 04:16 PM)JayneK Wrote: [ -> ]The Pope is guilty of talking like a Catholic rather than a fundamentalist.  Guess what.  That is as it should be.

He's guilty of talking like neither, but like a Modernist.

As for fundamentalism:

"Today, having a clear faith based on the Creed of the Church is often labeled as fundamentalism. Whereas relativism, that is, letting oneself be 'tossed here and there, carried about by every wind of doctrine,' (Eph. 4:14) seems the only attitude that can cope with modern times. We are building a dictatorship of relativism that does not recognize anything as definitive and whose ultimate goal consists solely of one's own ego and desires."

-Joseph Ratzinger, Mass Pro Eligendo Romano Pontifice, Vatican Basilica, 4-18-05

Just what exactly was modernist about what he really said - not what he is reported to have said, but what he said?  What he really said was sound Catholic teaching that could have been said by St. Thomas Aquinas.

And I was not talking about what is "often labeled as fundamentalism."  I am talking about historical fundamentalism, a movement which simplified Christianity by reducing it to five fundamental beliefs.
I can't believe that someone is upset that the Pope gives interviews...

It seems like some Trads are just looking for every little tiny thing that the Pope does so they can jump all over him.

And by the way, people were shocked that Jesus went into the houses of sinners and ate with them...

Pax,
Jesse
(11-21-2010, 04:38 PM)JayneK Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-21-2010, 04:26 PM)Jitpring Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-21-2010, 04:16 PM)JayneK Wrote: [ -> ]The Pope is guilty of talking like a Catholic rather than a fundamentalist.  Guess what.  That is as it should be.

He's guilty of talking like neither, but like a Modernist.

As for fundamentalism:

"Today, having a clear faith based on the Creed of the Church is often labeled as fundamentalism. Whereas relativism, that is, letting oneself be 'tossed here and there, carried about by every wind of doctrine,' (Eph. 4:14) seems the only attitude that can cope with modern times. We are building a dictatorship of relativism that does not recognize anything as definitive and whose ultimate goal consists solely of one's own ego and desires."

-Joseph Ratzinger, Mass Pro Eligendo Romano Pontifice, Vatican Basilica, 4-18-05

Just what exactly was modernist about what he really said - not what he is reported to have said, but what he said?  What he really said was sound Catholic teaching that could have been said by St. Thomas Aquinas.

And I was not talking about what is "often labeled as fundamentalism."  I am talking about historical fundamentalism, a movement which simplified Christianity by reducing it to five fundamental beliefs.

He said, in effect, that evil may be done that good may come of it.
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